Happy Valley Photo Essay

[Guest]

You know, I have a kind of theory here, that Mormonism is actually becoming more understanding and tolerant, and it's not doing so because of what is posted here, but through thoughtful insider criticism brought on by more balanced-thinking souls within the faith.

Some of the bigots here would LIKE Mormonism to remain the same as it was in 1850, so they can heap criticism on it to their heart's delight, and post numerous quotes from the 19 f*****g 50s.

This is really a Fool's Paradise, this board sometimes.

Yes, Ray, in taking issue with the hollow corporatism, shallow messages, and endless PR spin of the modern LDS Church, the critics are all failing to address what the Latter-day Saint flavor of Mormonism currently is.

And if there is anything the LDS Church is known for, it is the stifling, paternalistic bureaucracy welcoming grass-roots movements to steady the Ark.

Seldom have I seen the issues perceived and described so accurately.

[_Darth J]

Or they could just be themselves, and thus be far more effective at turning people away from the faith.

Either would being you uncontrollable spasms of delight. As long as they leave the faith.

I've been studying the teachings of Spencer W. Kimball and Mark E. Petersen. Hopefully I will learn to bring my spasms of delight under control.

[_RayAgostini]

Yes, Ray, in taking issue the hollow corporatism, shallow messages, and endless PR spin of the modern LDS Church, the critics are all failing to address what the Latter-day Saint flavor of Mormonism currently is.

And if there is anything the LDS Church is known for, it is the stifling, paternalistic bureaucracy welcoming grass-roots movements to steady the Ark.

Seldom have I seen the issues perceived and described so accurately.

Just to be clear on this issue, You're an anti-Mormon. I wouldn't even call Scratch an anti-Mormon. Inordinately obsessed with DCP, yes. But if memory serves me correctly, he hasn't gone on a mission to destroy Mormonism as you have. His motives are somewhat more complex. You are just a rat dying in a spiritless desert, and hoping to gain converts to your unbelief misery.

Really, Darth, you're such a pathetic creature.

[Guest]

Yes, Ray, in taking issue the hollow corporatism, shallow messages, and endless PR spin of the modern LDS Church, the critics are all failing to address what the Latter-day Saint flavor of Mormonism currently is.

And if there is anything the LDS Church is known for, it is the stifling, paternalistic bureaucracy welcoming grass-roots movements to steady the Ark.

Seldom have I seen the issues perceived and described so accurately.

Just to be clear on this issue, You're an anti-Mormon. I wouldn't even call Scratch an anti-Mormon. Inordinately obsessed with DCP, yes. But if memory serves me correctly, he hasn't gone on a mission to destroy Mormonism as you have. His motives are somewhat more complex. You are just a rat dying in a spiritless desert, and hoping to gain converts to your unbelief misery.

Really, Darth, you're such a pathetic creature.

I'm doing my best to keep a running tab, Ray.

I think it's that I am a pathetic, dogmatic, dying rat on a mission in a spiritless desert to gain converts who is going to learn the hard way because of karma when I try to go back to the Church.

ETA: Oh, and I support this den to the hilt [sic]. And I also am consumed with my temporary fame on this board that you have been at since the beginning, and you have seen many of my kind come and go.

There's probably some more that I am forgetting.

[_Doctor Scratch]

You know, I have a kind of theory here, that Mormonism is actually becoming more understanding and tolerant, and it's not doing so because of what is posted here, but through thoughtful insider criticism brought on by more balanced-thinking souls within the faith.

I sort of agree with this. I think that Mormons are probably becoming more "understanding and tolerant," though this has virtually nothing whatsoever to do with either Church leadership or apologists. I'm sure some of it is related to "balanced-thinking souls within the faith," but some of it is also surely due to outside criticism and the gradual "mainstreaming" of the culture. Ex-Mormons, in my opinion, are a special and important brand of "insiders." I think that the Church has always known this.

[_RayAgostini]

There's probably some more that I am forgetting.

There is, actually, and that is I can size up posters like you in ten seconds. Keep the quotes and Mormon-bashing going. Then, later on, tell me just how faithful you are in the Church, and you "really didn't mean it", but "was just trying to get a message across". Then lament for all the souls you've directed out of Mormonism.

You have a lot to learn. Now go ahead and dig up all those Joseph Fielding Smith quotes, and listen to the sound of your own self-righteousness.

Enjoy your fleeting "fame" here, Darth.

[_Darth J]

There's probably some more that I am forgetting.

There is, actually, and that is I can size up posters like you in ten seconds. Keep the quotes and Mormon-bashing going. Then, later on, tell me just how faithful you are in the Church, and you "really didn't mean it", but "was just trying to get a message across". Then lament for all the souls you've directed out of Mormonism.

You have a lot to learn. Now go ahead and dig up all those Joseph Fielding Smith quotes, and listen to the sound of your own self-righteousness.

Enjoy your fleeting "fame" here, Darth.

When I was posting on MDB,
I asked Ray, what will I be,
Will I go back to church, will karma get me,
Here's what he said to me.

Que Sera, Sera,
Whatever will be, will be,
The future's not ours to see,
Que Sera, Sera,
What will be, will be.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MXQTWCTc0aI

[_RockSlider]

Ray,
As I read the likes of Runtu, who has returned to church with a desire for full fellowship, Or Zee who recently was trying to give it a go, or many other NOM's that actively participate in church activities, or cultural Mormon's, up to their eyeballs in it from close family relations. I can understand where these individuals are coming from.

Of late you strike me as being similar to Why Me, Being outside of it all, and yet defending it like you were a TBM.

I don't understand this? I'm not trying to be mean … where are you coming from?

[_RayAgostini]

Ray,
As I read the likes of Runtu, who has returned to church with a desire for full fellowship, Or Zee who recently was trying to give it a go, or many other NOM's that actively participate in church activities, or cultural Mormon's, up to their eyeballs in it from close family relations. I can understand where these individuals are coming from.

Of late you strike me as being similar to Why Me, Being outside of it all, and yet defending it like you were a TBM.

I don't understand this? I'm not trying to be mean … where are you coming from?

There's a difference between being a "defender" and asking for more balance and fairness.

I explained this on Liz's now deleted board. Did you read it? I wrote there, ad infinitum, about my views, and you were there.

How many times, for God's sake, am I going to have to explain this?

[_MsJack]

I felt a great disturbance in the Force, as if a handful of persecution complexes suddenly cried out in terror and were suddenly humiliated.

Yeah. So, here's my take on the captions:

Preston, my brother, and Annette, married less than an hour earlier, sneak a kiss before their wedding reception. The LDS church strictly forbids premarital sex and many forms of physical contact between the sexes.

How misleading. It would have been much more accurate if he had photographed Preston copping a feel on Annette's breast between the wedding and the reception.

My sister Rachel has prepared a nicely sliced and plated vegan burger for her husband. Mormon authorities still prescribe traditional gender roles for their members. May 2006

I can understand the outrage over this. What does a woman preparing a nice meal for a man have to do with traditional gender roles? Besides, the LDS church hasn't encouraged traditional gender roles since its publication of Daughters in My Kingdom in August 2011. That was a long time ago. Why are people still talking about that?

My nephew Jonah, dressed in Sunday attire in the parking lot of an LDS church, leaves his Uncle Preston’s wedding reception. Newlyweds often hold the reception in the gymnasium of LDS churches because it’s free.

Completely misleading. Most of the LDS wards in the Happy Valley area have a stingy "no-wedding-receptions" policy anyways, and those that do allow wedding receptions have an equally stingy "only our ward members" policy, so the couples from the wards that don't allow wedding receptions are absolutely screwed. See here.

Also, I can't believe Shumway would describe a room that typically contains basketball hoops and lines on the floor as a "gymnasium." The nerve.

Rachel, my sister, on the bed as her husband Chris rushes out of the shower and into the closet without his garments. Mormons are commanded to wear garments, which are a sacred underclothing, for life after going through the Endowment Ceremony.

You mean a picture of a naked man with bizarre knee-length tan-lines has been given a caption offering an explanation for said tan lines? Sinister.

On the Sabbath, all "worldly" activities, such as buying things, watching TV, playing video games, or even visiting friends, must cease.

This is the one caption that I find mildly misleading. It's incorrect to suggest that Mormons have a hard and fast rule on this issue when in reality this is just a cultural phenomenon based on the scattered teachings of a few LDS leaders.

BUT here's my own story on the matter:

On my second semester at BYU, I moved into Heritage Halls, the on-campus "apartment-style" dorms. Before the semester started, my five roommates and I exchanged e-mails on which woman was bringing which communal goods. The one who was from Sandy, Utah offered to bring a TV and VCR/DVD player, and we said sure.

When this roommate arrived and set up her TV and VCR/DVD unit, there was a huge sign on it:

"NO RATED-R MOVIES
NO NON-CHURCH
MOVIES ON SUNDAY!"

That's right. You could watch Together Forever or a Mormon Tabernacle Choir broadcast on Sunday if you wanted to, but that was it. She didn't want us using her television to facilitate our sinful Sunday movie-watching. Since no one else had brought a television after she had offered to bring hers, we were stuck keeping her rules against our will.

(by the way, please don't think too poorly of my roommate. She was a very good roommate in almost every other respect.)

So yeah, it's incorrect to suggest that this is a dictate of the church or something. But it's just as incorrect to act like nothing like this ever happens.

I'm not much of an art critic, so I have little to say about the photographs. I will say that I didn't appreciate having to look at his brother-in-law's naked ass. I feel like I shouldn't have to look at that naked ass unless someone pays me to do it.

But I've read and re-read those captions and that little essay that accompanied it and I cannot for the life of me see what was worth fussing about. The comments make Mormons look far worse than all of Brian Shumway's captions and photographs combined.