Happy Valley Photo Essay

[_Darth J]

There's a difference between being a "defender" and asking for more balance and fairness.

Ray:

Stupid ideas, like that masturbating is a slippery slope to turning gay, are not entitled to more balance and fairness.

Frontier tall tales and myths touted as fact, and crank ad hoc theories trying to explain how those myths might possibly be true if one indulges a long chain of unsupported assumptions, are not entitled to more balance and fairness.

Buying a low-rent motel, evicting the low-income residents, then tearing down the motel and letting the land lay vacant until you can think of a commercial use for the land, and all purporting to be done by Jesus' one, true church, is not entitled to more balance and fairness.

[_RayAgostini]

Frontier tall tales and myths touted as fact, and crank ad hoc theories trying to explain how those myths might possibly be true if one indulges a long chain of unsupported assumptions, are not entitled to more balance and fairness.

When you set the parameters of what's possible, or not possible, you've already set yourself up as the judge of what should, or should not be taken seriously, or even seriously discussed. It effectively becomes a case of, "when DarthJ has spoken, the debate is over". Sorry, but I'm not into this kind of thinking. One could entirely dismiss Christianity on similar grounds, and many have tried to do so.

Buying a low-rent motel, evicting the low-income residents, then tearing down the motel and letting the land lay vacant until you can think of a commercial use for the land, and all purporting to be done by Jesus' one, true church, is not entitled to more balance and fairness.

And this is how you judge Mormonism and Mormons?

What's shocking to me is that you can judge a whole Church and people, and its claims, based on incidents like this. It's as if you think all Mormons agree with this. It's just another demonstration of how contracted your mind has become in your never-ending quest to rid Mormonism from your personal life. Keep quoting, keep bashing, keep up the self-justification, and keep your narrow categories. I wish you a pleasant spiritual death. Eventually, if you haven't already arrived there, you'll only believe what can be "laboratory tested", and the really scary thing is that you won't entertain any thought that's contrary to your accepted dogma, and anyone who diverges from your "Gospel", is obviously a lunatic.

[_Drifting]

When you set the parameters of what's possible, or not possible, you've already set yourself up as the judge of what should, or should not be taken seriously, or even seriously discussed. It effectively becomes a case of, "when DarthJ has spoken, the debate is over". Sorry, but I'm not into this kind of thinking. One could entirely dismiss Christianity on similar grounds, and many have tried to do so.

So, when the Apostles say...
"when the Prophet speaks the debate is over"
...you don't agree with them?

[_RayAgostini]

So, when the Apostles say...
"when the Prophet speaks the debate is over"
...you don't agree with them?

Of course not, and if you care to go through a proper reading of Dialogue and the follow-up to this quote, you'll find the full context and the reactions to this quote/claim.

Ignorance, total ignorance, prevails here, and there's no sense of fairness or balance. Now hit the research trail!

[_Drifting]

So, when the Apostles say...
"when the Prophet speaks the debate is over"
...you don't agree with them?

Of course not, and if you care to go through a proper reading of Dialogue and the follow-up to this quote, you'll find the full context and the reactions to this quote/claim.

Ignorance, total ignorance, prevails here, and there's no sense of fairness or balance. Now hit the research trail!

Good morning Ray,

I hope you are well and that the sun is shining.

The quote I gave is a common understanding within the Church that members should follow Prophets & Apostles council regardless of any questions one might have about it. The Church operates on a do as your told basis - you are encouraged to think, but encouraged to only reach the same conclusion that you have been instructed to reach.

In fact a Stake President told me that once you sign up to the Temple covenants you are no longer supposed to have questions - just be obedient to the counsel given.

Or do you not see that?

[_RayAgostini]

The quote I gave is a common understanding within the Church that members should follow Prophets & Apostles council regardless of any questions one might have about it. The Church operates on a do as your told basis - you are encouraged to think, but encouraged to only reach the same conclusion that you have been instructed to reach.

In fact a Stake President told me that once you sign up to the Temple covenants you are no longer supposed to have questions - just be obedient to the counsel given.

Or do you not see that?

Is that what a stake president told you? Wow. Just wow. (sarcasm, really)

This is the problem with so many posters here. "A bishop told me...". "A stake president told me....". "A Church leader told me...".

Aren't you people supposed to be thinkers?

That's why I actually have a sort of admiration for harmony. She can cut out the BS without denying her faith, and while it may not be "orthodox", she's remained faithful. She hasn't become a full-on anti-Mormon like DarthJ.

[_Darth J]

Frontier tall tales and myths touted as fact, and crank ad hoc theories trying to explain how those myths might possibly be true if one indulges a long chain of unsupported assumptions, are not entitled to more balance and fairness.

When you set the parameters of what's possible, or not possible, you've already set yourself up as the judge of what should, or should not be taken seriously, or even seriously discussed.

I don't mean to interrupt your eulogizing the virtues of gullibility, but people who are skeptical of specious claims don't arbitrarily set up the parameters of what is possible. The issue is not what is "possible," but what is reasonable to believe.

It effectively becomes a case of, "when DarthJ has spoken, the debate is over". Sorry, but I'm not into this kind of thinking. One could entirely dismiss Christianity on similar grounds, and many have tried to do so.

You are cordially invited to find a single post I have made on this board where I have said anything that a rational person could interpret as "when I have spoken, the debate is over."

search.php?author_id=7958&sr=posts

We all know that Ray is certainly not all about simplistic binary thinking and sitting in judgment based on unsupported assertion, so put up or shut up.

Buying a low-rent motel, evicting the low-income residents, then tearing down the motel and letting the land lay vacant until you can think of a commercial use for the land, and all purporting to be done by Jesus' one, true church, is not entitled to more balance and fairness.

And this is how you judge Mormonism and Mormons?

Moroni 7

5 For I remember the word of God which saith by their works ye shall know them; for if their works be good, then they are good also.

6 For behold, God hath said a man being evil cannot do that which is good; for if he offereth a gift, or prayeth unto God, except he shall do it with real intent it profiteth him nothing.

What's shocking to me is that you can judge a whole Church and people, and its claims, based on incidents like this. It's as if you think all Mormons agree with this.

It sure looks like you are basing your judgments on fact and reason, and not at all on your hysterical crusade against......whatever the “F” it is you're babbling about.

And as further evidence of how I am supposedly judging the LDS people based on this one incident, let's see exactly what I said specifically about that incident:

That the LDS Church is involved is particularly disappointing, because the Church really does do a lot of humanitarian work when it puts its mind to it. And most Latter-day Saints, in my experience, tend to be kind and decent people who wouldn't feel good about demolishing a motel where poor people are living just to let the land lie vacant until Jesus' next business venture can be thought of. This particular episode is merely symptomatic of the big picture: that the LDS Church has considerably skewed it priorities from the good principles that it teaches.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=16021&p=393949

And guess what you said in the exact same thread where I said this, Ray?

Because of the Christmas demand we who live on the arse end of the earth have a serious rental shortage.

I can hardly think of anything worse than to be told on eviction only weeks before Christmas - "tough titties". There's just "no room for you in the Inn.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=16021&p=393949

It sure looks like you were judging the Church based on that particular event, whereas I was explicitly absolving the LDS people.

But let it not be suggested that you are currently on some arbitrary, lunatic tirade on this board about God knows what.

It's just another demonstration of how contracted your mind has become in your never-ending quest to rid Mormonism from your personal life.

Yeah, I have no friends or family members who are believing Latter-day Saints. I've cut all ties with loved ones like them. And why? Because my hatred can only be sated when I drink the blood of Mormons.

Keep quoting, keep bashing, keep up the self-justification, and keep your narrow categories. I wish you a pleasant spiritual death. Eventually, if you haven't already arrived there, you'll only believe what can be "laboratory tested", and the really scary thing is that you won't entertain any thought that's contrary to your accepted dogma, and anyone who diverges from your "Gospel", is obviously a lunatic.

Let's all read what Ray said in a thread about my de-conversion story:

I find most of Scott's reasoning bizzare, to say the least. It's like they live in this Gilligan's Island cocoon, sheltered from the rest of the real world in a sort of "Jack and the Beanstalk" fantasy. 1 million light years away from reality. If Darth is in fact active, then his "anti-Mormon" criticisms hold more credibility for me than a whole choir of apologists singing "Let us all press on."

Mormon apologist are just so stoopid, with an absolute minimal appeal to intelligence, that I rank them with a lower IQ than Mickey Mouse. (Okay, I may be exaggerating).

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=13596&st=0&sk=t&sd=a

I can't imagine why anyone would think you're a hypocritical, disingenuous, raving lunatic, Ray.

[_RayAgostini]

I can't imagine why anyone would think you're a hypocritical, disingenuous, raving lunatic, Ray.

You back again for more punishment? I'll deal with you in more detail tomorrow. But anyway, thanks for confirming that I'm not an "apologist" (tell your mates too).

Go back all you want, quote all you want, and keep establishing yourself as a little spiritually dead man with a pea brain.

You're such a fool. Really.

[Guest]

I can't imagine why anyone would think you're a hypocritical, disingenuous, raving lunatic, Ray.

You back again for more punishment?

A more apt description of reading your posts, I have not yet seen.

I'll deal with you in more detail tomorrow. But anyway, thanks for confirming that I'm not an "apologist" (tell your mates too).

Go back all you want, quote all you want, and keep establishing yourself as a little spiritually dead man with a pea brain.

You're such a fool. Really.

1986: "Crocodile" Dundee

1988: "Crocodile" Dundee II

2001: Crocodile Dundee in Los Angeles

2011: Crocodile Dundee Forgets to Take His Lithium

[_Drifting]

The quote I gave is a common understanding within the Church that members should follow Prophets & Apostles council regardless of any questions one might have about it. The Church operates on a do as your told basis - you are encouraged to think, but encouraged to only reach the same conclusion that you have been instructed to reach.

In fact a Stake President told me that once you sign up to the Temple covenants you are no longer supposed to have questions - just be obedient to the counsel given.

Or do you not see that?

Is that what a stake president told you? Wow. Just wow. (sarcasm, really)

This is the problem with so many posters here. "A bishop told me...". "A stake president told me....". "A Church leader told me...".

Aren't you people supposed to be thinkers?

Your sarcasm is misplaced.
What I told you was accurate.

However, putting that aside, the point I am making is that the Church doesn't encourage people to be thinkers unless that thinking merely confirms obedience to the words of the current Prophets and Apostles.

Wether you see that or not is irrelevant.
One only need research General Conference or other areas on LDS.org to see that it is an accurate portrayal.