Mormon Egyptologist Debunks the Book of Abraham

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_BrianH
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Re: Mormon Egyptologist Debunks the Book of Abraham

Post by _BrianH »

Kevin Graham wrote:
Thompson is a qualified Egyptologist, but unlike the apostate Dr. Thompson


Oh that would make things much easier for droopy, but as usual he doesn't know what he is talking about, as Thompson is no "apostate" and is an active LDS member in good standing.

the Church also has and has fielded competent and distinguished scholars with similar credentials


Funny how droopy admits these people work strictly for the Church, revealing their biased agenda that has nothing to do with truth or scholarship. But let's see who he had in mind. CFR.

greater intellectual depth (if Shirts' expose of Thompson's lackluster scholarship is any indication, and it most certainly appears to be) who have not found Thompson's conclusions convincing.


Kerry Shirts wears fruit on his head and argues that archaeology proves God has a penis. He is not a scholar in any sense of the word and he doesn't pretend to be. His website is an ancient artifact of failed apologetics. The fact that members have to restort to relying on whatever nonsense an armchair apologist pumps out, means they have no business talking about intellectual integrity.

The fact is no one has dealt with Thompson's refutations of Nibley, and Ritner's latest book confirms much of what Thomspn already established. According to Ritner, Nibley's knowledge of Egyptian was so bad, that he'd perform "word for word" translations, producing gibberish, just so he could say, "See, this makes no sense, Egyptian we may never understand." Of course word for word translations from any language often produce gibberish. Nibley had Mormons fooled into thinking he had a decent grasp of the Egyptian language. He didn't. But who was going to argue with him? There were no Mormon Egyptologists at the time.

When I was an apologist this caused concern for me so I emailed an LDS E-list that was frequented by numerous LDS scholars and their only help was to tell me that Thompson was working his way down the career ladder by becoming a HS teacher somewhere in Florida. That was the extent of their response when I presented a number of claims he made that contradicted Nibley. In reality Thompson is visiting scholar at Brown University and the Egyptology depts at Chicago and Brown Universities are all united in their disagreement with the one or two "Egyptologists" produced by the Church. They have no credibility anywhere now.

In reality, the apologists have not dealt with Thompson. He has more credibility than both of the Church's "Egyptologists" put together. Mulhstein and Gee both have become agents of disinformation and they are not shy about lying if they think they can get away with it or save a soul for the Mormon Church. Truth really doesn't matter to them. Muhlstein's latest and idiotic remark aboutr a papyrus saying "Abraham on his couch" is a perfect example.

Loran Blood is a moron of epic proportions, and he has yet to demonstrate any knowledge on these matters whatsoever. It is why he gets "insta-banned" on his home forum whenever he tries to stick his nose into the subject he clearly knows nothing about. This is the same idiot who tried telling me the critics were arguing that the Book of Abraham came from the Hypocephalus! It is the same idiot who told me I knew nothing, but then ran over to the other forum to solicit help from the apologists in order to respond to my questions; they couldn't help him either. Between defenses mounted by Loran and the "special needs" apologist named Wade Englund, things aren't looking good for LDS apologetics. They don't have the intellectual fortitude to create valid counter-arguments. All they know how to do is attack anyone who dares stray from the party line.


Very interesting input, K. I figured as much just from the mechanical regurgitations Mr. Droopy hinted at.

Its so interesting to me to see Mormons make claims like "Thompson has been refuted" but then fail to show any evidence to support that claim.

Anyway, good insights. Many thanks.

-BH

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_Droopy
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Re: Mormon Egyptologist Debunks the Book of Abraham

Post by _Droopy »

Very interesting input, K. I figured as much just from the mechanical regurgitations Mr. Droopy hinted at.


No, I didn't say "mechanical regurgitation." They are regurgitations, but not mechanical. They are reworked and put in Graham's own words, but they are not his original insights and do not flow strictly from original - or honest, in my view - intellectual inquiry on his part.

Its so interesting to me to see Mormons make claims like "Thompson has been refuted" but then fail to show any evidence to support that claim.


I posted a series of links to Kerry's critique of Thompson on some salient issues.

Anyway, good insights. Many thanks.



If you think a long post composed of nothing but ad hominem flailing and vicious insults involves "good insights," it would appear that the bar for you as to what constitutes serious discussion is a fruit of the lowest hanging variety.
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_Corpsegrinder
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Re: Mormon Egyptologist Debunks the Book of Abraham

Post by _Corpsegrinder »

BrianH wrote:I already know CGs opinion. I am asking her if she is willing to try to support her opinion with something more than the programmed emotional reactions ingrained into every Mormon.

No, dude, I'm on your side--I agree with you that the Book of Abraham is as goofy and nonsensical as the Bible.
_just me
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Re: Mormon Egyptologist Debunks the Book of Abraham

Post by _just me »

Corpsegrinder wrote:
BrianH wrote:I already know CGs opinion. I am asking her if she is willing to try to support her opinion with something more than the programmed emotional reactions ingrained into every Mormon.

No, dude, I'm on your side--I agree with you that the Book of Abraham is as goofy and nonsensical as the Bible.


He's really good at reading people. /deadpan
~Those who benefit from the status quo always attribute inequities to the choices of the underdog.~Ann Crittenden
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_Kevin Graham
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Re: Mormon Egyptologist Debunks the Book of Abraham

Post by _Kevin Graham »

Others don't think so, but of course, you have no respect for those others whatsoever either.

Oh really? Name me a single instance where you demonstrated any knowledge on this subject whatsoever. I'm not interested in whether or not you got the other two stooges (Englund/Schryver) to clap their hands. The fact is, these are the only "others" who may have appealed to something you've said, but they do so only because they are only more interested in keeping loyalties strong. As it is, your own home forum wants nothing to do with you because you're an embarrassment to the group. You have to come to an apostate forum because only here do they allow freedom of speech to complain.
Interestingly, those others have been telling Kevin that he doesn't know what he's talking about just as long has he's been yelling the same back at them.

Such as? The only person I can think of is William Schryver, who is just a proven liar who has been refuted more times than we can keep track of anymore. No serious thinkers believe he has credibility anymore. LDS scholars are distancing themselves from him as we speak.
Those same "others," who have been doing primary study of the KEP for years, unlike R. Graham, who cuts and pastes reworked arguments from long years past by others who do not understand that they are barking up a nonexistent tree, have quite a good argument to make, from there perspective, about the relative merits of Graham's arguments.

Uh, I was the one who educated Schryver on this subject back in 2006. The exchange is online in the MAD archives. William Schryver was as dumb about this subject then as you are now. He thought the KEP and the papyri were the same thing! ROFL! Then when I explained what they were, and pointed out that he had no idea what they were, he tried to squirm his way out of it by saying he had studied these documents as extensively as anyone had. Of course, he was too stupid to know at the time that these documents weren't available for "extensive" study. He just tried to lie his way out of another lie, which is generally what you and wade do too. It is pretty hilarious to watch to be honest.

So you have no idea what you are talking about when you refer to LDS apologists who have been studying the KEP for years while I've been doing nothing. Gee has done NOTHING but lie about this subject. Schryver has been spending years trying to force-feed the evidence into his idiotic theories, but his problem is that we know this stuff better than he does, and so the only people he can ever hope to convince are his "ignorant" folks at MAD, as he frequently describes them. As far as I can tell, the only BYU scholar who has studied these documents to any degree is Brian Hauglid, and he emailed me out of the blue a few weeks ago to tell me to keep up the good work in refuting Will's Cipher nonsense. Remember, Hauglid as William's star expert for years until Hauglid told him he didn't agree with his theories. At that point William left in a huff like a crying baby and hasn't spoken to Hauglid since. His ego cannot handle rejection, even from his own experts.

This lie has been explained ad nauseum, over and over again


It isn't a lie. You clearly believed the Breathings Text was synonymous with the Hypocephalus. Your idiotic comment is documented online and it will forever haunt you as long as you persist in this subject. You proved you had no credibility. Several years later, you've changed not one bit. All you do is scrub the apologetic web for whatever outdated article you can find. It doesn't matter who wrote it. Gee or Shirts, so long as it comes from an apologist.
Yeah, like R. Graham runs to Ashment, Larson, Metcalf et al seeking solace for his apostasy from what he knows is true becuse he has no original arguments or perspectives of his own to bring to the table and to cut through the tangled undergrowth of his own bad conscience.

At least they don't have to lie. Gee, Nibley and now Schryver are notorious liars. Who needs "original" arguments when the ones that already exist are on solid ground and haven't been moved an inch?
The fact that he finds going to a board like MDD, where there are a number of highly educated people around, looking for greater education and knowledge on some subject, as indicative of some personal failing, is instructive. Why read books at all? Why go to lectures?

Unlike Loran, I get invited to speak on these subjects because of what I know. Loran is usually invited to leave discussions about this subject. I also get invited to publish, and I get spontaneous emails from LDS scholars thanking me for my work on the subject. I'm not like Blood and Schryver who have to either pimp themselves as a "Think tank" specialist, or lobby themselves with the BYU faculty, desperately looking for some sympathetic "scholar" who is willing to give them the time of day. How pathetic when the only thing you have going for you is a Mormon testimony. The folks at BYU are sympathetic to any Mormon knuckle-dragger who is willing to say whatever is required to help the Church. Truth doesn't really matter. Retaining memberships is what matters.
I've know Down's Syndrome people who are far better, far more likeable, and basically more human than you, my little invertebrate. And you know what, in the far vaster, panoramic view of things, it just may turn out in the end that they were smarter than you as well.

Hey there is nothing wrong with having learning disabilities, as Wade Englund admittedly has. But it is frustrating to see someone suffering from these cognitive deficiencies while at the same time refusing to accept the possibility that he isn't properly understanding what is being said. No, not for wade. It has to be the other guy who is having comprehension issues! His ego won't allow it any other way. He has to be in teaching mode constantly, even when it is painfully clear he has no friggin clue what he is talking about. It is embarrassing that the most vocal apologists on this subject are two uneducated, single, sexually frustrated men in their 50's; one with known learning disabilities and the other with unknown learning disabilities.

And the only other LDS guy trying to come up with apologetics on this subject is Schryver, who is too much of a coward to defend his bad arguments. He was on the forum bragging for weeks, taunting Chris Smith to address his cipher BS. I step up to the plate, show how idiotic his arguments are, and suddenly William has to take a leave of absence because Gee recommended it. He then tries to get wade to stop talking because he was embarrassing them all. The three of you are intellectual frauds. You can only fool a naïve group like that over at MAD.
_Buffalo
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Re: Mormon Egyptologist Debunks the Book of Abraham

Post by _Buffalo »

Droopy wrote:
If Thompson has rejected the Book of Abraham as revealed scripture, he has rejected a major aspect of the Restoration and much of the doctrine associated with it. Hence, he is in personal apostasy.


DCP is a quasi-Universalist, which is a rejection of the key "one true church" doctrine. And yet he's a member in good standing.
Parley P. Pratt wrote:We must lie to support brother Joseph, it is our duty to do so.

B.R. McConkie, © Intellectual Reserve wrote:There are those who say that revealed religion and organic evolution can be harmonized. This is both false and devilish.
_BrianH
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Re: Mormon Egyptologist Debunks the Book of Abraham

Post by _BrianH »

Corpsegrinder wrote:
BrianH wrote:I already know CGs opinion. I am asking her if she is willing to try to support her opinion with something more than the programmed emotional reactions ingrained into every Mormon.

No, dude, I'm on your side--I agree with you that the Book of Abraham is as goofy and nonsensical as the Bible.



You are obviously NOT on my side, since you obviously cannot even distinguish between the Book of Abraham and the Bible.

-BH

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_Corpsegrinder
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Re: Mormon Egyptologist Debunks the Book of Abraham

Post by _Corpsegrinder »

BrianH wrote:...since you obviously cannot even distinguish between the Book of Abraham and the Bible.

Yes I can--the Book of Abraham says "Abraham" on the front, but the Bibe says "Bible" on the front. See, I really am on your side, and the Book of Abraham really is as phoney as the Bible. I'm only trying to help you.

Why all the hate, Brother Brian?
_BrianH
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Re: Mormon Egyptologist Debunks the Book of Abraham

Post by _BrianH »

Droopy wrote:
Unfortunately for him, yes. The man has never had and now continues to bear no qualifications


Except an adult lifetime of study, reading, research, and deep, hard thinking about these subjects. Whether or not he has a formal, academic degree appears to me to be superfluous (and logically, as to the merits of his arguments, it is).

And your qualifications to adjudge either Kerry's merits of the arguments of academic Egyptologists (who do not by any means agree on many things) are?


Sorry, Droops ...a lifetime of excuse-making and self-inflated ranting out in the desert in front of a hand-held 8mm camera does not qualify your boy Shirts as even close to being in the game, let alone joining the big leagues. Ever wonder why no one in the Egyptological, historical or archaeological academy pays any attention to the man? The reason WHY no one outside the LDS organization cares what he says is because he exhibits no evidence of even being minimally informed about the actual facts he pretends to refute. The man is simply uneducated. FAR from exhibiting any evidence of "hard thinking", the man is notorious (among the few who are even aware of him) as a kook. You are going to have to do more than this to refute Dr. Thompson.

It is evident that you dismiss academic qualifications and prefer the unqualified ranting of unknown ideologues when it comes to such mundane matters as Egyptian history and langauge. But the simple fact is, your boy Shirts is not even in the game. He is, at best, a meer cheerleader, yelling from the cheap seats behind the sidelines.

What you need to do is get in the game here. You need to either get on the field yourself with some valid scholarship, actual evidence and valid reasoning to refute Dr. Thomposon, or you need to find some QUALIFIED players to get on the field for you by citing their QUALIFIED research ...which will be all the more difficult for you to do now that you have publicly dismissed academic qualifications as "superfluous".

We know what Mormons have been told to "think" by the LDS church. Simply citing other Mormons who are repeating what you have all been told to think will not do. The challenge for you here is to present some factual evidence and valid reasonsing that might lead a reasonable, sane person to conclude that what you have been told to believe is actually TRUE.

-BH

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_BrianH
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Re: Mormon Egyptologist Debunks the Book of Abraham

Post by _BrianH »

Corpsegrinder wrote:
BrianH wrote:...since you obviously cannot even distinguish between the Book of Abraham and the Bible.

Yes I can--the Book of Abraham says "Abraham" on the front, but the Bibe says "Bible" on the front. See, I really am on your side, and the Book of Abraham really is as phoney as the Bible. I'm only trying to help you.


Thank you for proving my point: you really cannot distinguish between the Bible and the Book of Abraham.


Why all the hate, Brother Brian?


When did you stop selling crack to 6th graders, CG?

-BH

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