Fence Sitter wrote:Well Italy may be a productive place to search for Lamanite DNA. The geography there seems to fit the Book of Mormon setting quite well.
I think Darth J has constructed a very interesting argument to that effect. You should ask him about it.
"Petition wasn’t meant to start a witch hunt as I’ve said 6000 times." ~ Hanna Seariac, LDS apologist
Doctor Scratch wrote:Wow... So it's true, then? That's fascinating. Well, this "informant" *has* been reliable in the past. In any event, I suppose I should relate the full "intel," then.
What I was told is that Perego's "assignment"/"calling" off to Italy was really a means of shutting him up. There is apparently informed speculation (as always, take this with a shaker of salt) that Perego's research into Joseph Smith's polygamous progeny came up with positive results, and so now the Church is punting him off to Rome--complete with what my "informant" described as a "villa", giant salary, and large pension--all as a means of getting him to stay utterly quiet on the matter of his research findings.
Obviously, this latter stuff is far more fantastical that the bit about Perego going to Italy, so this rumor should be treated with skepticism. Then again, it's not as if the Church hasn't taken pains elsewhere to cover up certain historical facts. And if it were to surface that Joseph Smith had sired children with his polygamous wives--during a potential Mitt Romney presidential run year--it could be a disastrous blow to the Church. (They are in the midst of huge PR campaigns....) So, this seems plausible to me, even if it remains unsubstantiated at the moment.
Huh. Maybe it is less fantastical than you think. Of course, maybe I am wrong and the discovery of such Smith progeny would be the kind of thing that would get a write up in the Church News and the Ensign. Something along the lines the Salamander Letter received. Maybe Elder Oaks would favor us with a talk on how this is great, inspiring news. Or, maybe not. Who knows?
"Petition wasn’t meant to start a witch hunt as I’ve said 6000 times." ~ Hanna Seariac, LDS apologist
Dr. Shades wrote:It makes sense. The Sorenson Foundation has been quick to trumpet its findings whenever an individual has proven to NOT be a descendant of Smith. For whatever reason, they've been completely silent on the other names for whom they've tested. . . which tells me that those folks came up positive.
Really, Shades? Like who?
"Petition wasn’t meant to start a witch hunt as I’ve said 6000 times." ~ Hanna Seariac, LDS apologist
Fence Sitter wrote:Well Italy may be a productive place to search for Lamanite DNA. The geography there seems to fit the Book of Mormon setting quite well.
I think Darth J has constructed a very interesting argument to that effect. You should ask him about it.
Dr. Shades wrote:It makes sense. The Sorenson Foundation has been quick to trumpet its findings whenever an individual has proven to NOT be a descendant of Smith. For whatever reason, they've been completely silent on the other names for whom they've tested. . . which tells me that those folks came up positive.
Really, Shades? Like who?
Seems like things ground to a stop after the testing on Josephine Lyon.
Ongoing research includes evaluation of Josephine Lyon (Sylvia Sessions Lyon) autosomal DNA. "Hundreds of DNA samples from male and female descendants of both Josephine Lyon and Joseph Smith have been collected and are being analyzed with the objective of identifying lineage-specific markers..." (Perego, Woodward, Journal of Mormon History, Vol 32, No.2 fn 39). In January 2004, Descendants of Josephine participating in this study indicated the research is "promising" in confirming Josephine as a daughter of Joseph Smith. An August 2008 “Mormon Times” article indicates, “…they should know in the ‘next year or so’”.
The "next year or so" apparently has morphed into never. If it were proven that Joseph was Josephine's father, it would be particularly problematic because it was a polyandrous union.
snicker
We hate to seem like we don’t trust every nut with a story, but there’s evidence we can point to, and dance while shouting taunting phrases.
It is all very intriguing because I know that they were receiving new leads on other possible descendants of Joseph Smith through polygamous unions. For Ugo Perego to be shuffled off suddenly to Italy looks mighty suspicious, whether there really is any connection or not.
But this is exactly how the Church works. When they want to get an employee out, they will simply pack them up and ship them out. My mother saw this happen to an engineer at the DC temple. One day someone arrived, told him to pack his things, and escorted him out of the building. Seems he was making too much noise about the sad state of the structure.
"Petition wasn’t meant to start a witch hunt as I’ve said 6000 times." ~ Hanna Seariac, LDS apologist
Fence Sitter wrote:Well Italy may be a productive place to search for Lamanite DNA. The geography there seems to fit the Book of Mormon setting quite well.
I think Darth J has constructed a very interesting argument to that effect. You should ask him about it.
Thanks Kishkumen, his post on Italy was good and the main reason for my response here.
"Any over-ritualized religion since the dawn of time can make its priests say yes, we know, it is rotten, and hard luck, but just do as we say, keep at the ritual, stick it out, give us your money and you'll end up with the angels in heaven for evermore."
beastie wrote:The "next year or so" apparently has morphed into never. If it were proven that Joseph was Josephine's father, it would be particularly problematic because it was a polyandrous union.
snicker
That's interesting. At least from the nineteenth-century sources, Josephine Lyon is the likeliest child of Joseph Smith. It's interesting that Brian Hales pretty much concludes that she was Joseph's biological child, but he goes to great lengths to assert that Sylvia Lyon was separated from her husband at the time and therefore, under Joseph's teaching that the celestial law abrogates all other covenants, including marriage, that Sylvia was free to marry the prophet. Such an argument is problematic, of course, but if Josephine is confirmed to be Joseph Smith's biological child, that's probably where the apologists will go.
Doctor Scratch wrote:[the Church is punting him off to Rome--complete with what my "informant" described as a "villa", giant salary, and large pension--all as a means of getting him to stay utterly quiet on the matter of his research findings.
Surely this should read "the Church has called him through inspiration to serve in Rome, where modest accommodation and a modest living allowance will be granted..."
“We look to not only the spiritual but also the temporal, and we believe that a person who is impoverished temporally cannot blossom spiritually.” Keith McMullin - Counsellor in Presiding Bishopric
"One, two, three...let's go shopping!" Thomas S Monson - Prophet, Seer, Revelator
Only a few months after the Limited Geography Theory comes toppling down, and now this? Another Mopologetic project disbanded?
I think this is one of those times when silence tells us everything we need to know.
If this project had cast serious doubt on Joseph Smith's "extra curricular activities", say it came to the conclusion, or was projected to come to the conclusion, that there is a 35% chance that Joseph Smith didn't sire "side projects", then the PR side of the project would have been able to stretch this into 51% and hit the press with the result that the "offspring theory" had been overturned.
Given the 35% would have included at least 10% of bias in the direction favorable to the church, I think we can say it's 85% likely that Joseph Smith had children with his other wives, thus proving that his polygamy wasn't platonic or a way to do clean up some Celestial paperwork.