BrianH wrote:Darth J wrote:I think that we have yet again established that no other church comes closer to the LDS interpretation of the Bible than the LDS Church. Therefore, the LDS Church is the true church because it follows its own interpretation of the Bible.
Similarly, we have also established that the LDS Church is false because it fails to conform to Brian H.'s interpretation of the Bible.
My "interpretation" of the Bible is not the issue here. And even if it was, I have not even represented it such that you could even pretend to make such a judgment.
The issue here, in this discussion, is my challenge that the Mormons show us evidence that will support their practice of attributing the seven distinctively LDS doctrines I listed in the OP to Jesus Christ. So far the closest anyone has come is a copy-paste list of isolated, context-free quotes from the 3rd - 4th century church. But in each case the citations were deceptively offered.
-BH
.
What evidence do you have to support your own doctrinal views? You have exactly the same amount of evidence to support your religious views as the Mormons do. This is where your double-standard lies. This is where your blind spot lies. I am reminded of a time on this board when a non-LDS person was so sure the Mormons were wrong, and yet was convinced that there was such a thing as ESP. He also had a blind spot and also had no direct evidence, yet was certain that his view was more correct than that of the Mormons'.
On this board, you will find many people do not believe that Jesus ever existed, even as a historical figure. For this reason, your attempt to prove anyone wrong about the Mormon church is in vain, since you have not bothered to qualify your opposing point of view.
Certainty is an emotional state. The more certain you are of something, the more likely it is that you are wrong. There are ways of being more or less certain about many things. Perhaps you have heard of empiricism. Unfortunately, when it comes to "spiritual knowledge" everyone is on an equal playing field.
This is why you immediately discredit yourself. The way you have come here, with your condescending attitude and certainty that the Mormons are wrong, is the least likely way to convince anyone of anything.
This is important. Convincing people to abandon their beliefs is an impossible process with your approach. In order to change someone's mind, you, first, have to get on their side and establish credibility. Otherwise, you are just another random person on a message board.
For the record, the Israelites were polytheists and Asherah was mentioned in early versions of the Bible. The Bible, also, recognizes the existence of other gods, like Baal, and makes a commandment to put no others first. The culture of the time was such that many Gods were revered and if your people lost to another people, it was because their god was more powerful. After the destruction of the Temple, the only way to explain that Elohim was weaker, was to put the blame on the people. Elohim was actually the strongest, but since the people were weak, they lost. Cognitive dissonance at its best, truly.
The reality is that the Gospels existed in many forms and only a sliver of what existed made it into the Bible to support political ends. There was never just one version of Christianity and the earliest Christians believed that Jesus never had a physical body. The manger story, Nazareth, Christmas and Easter all came much later.
Can you find mention of a physical Jesus before the 2nd Century?
My view is this...
The Israelites were not God's chosen people. They were never enslaved as an entire race in Egypt. There was never any King David. Abraham is entirely fictitious. The Old Testament was manipulated for political reasons. If the Israelites are not God's chosen people, then the Old Testament is not to be trusted. If the Old Testament is not to be trusted, then the New Testament is more than equally fallacious. If the New Testament is fallacious, then the Book of Mormon is not just a lie, but an intentional misrepresentation to defraud people using religion.
In order to prove that the Mormon Church is "true," you will first need to prove that the Old Testament is true and then prove the New Testament is also true. If you are going to come to a Mormon board and try to prove a Mormon wrong, then you are going to need evidence to back up why you are right.
But you don't have that evidence. You have a feeling of certainty, in which you cherry pick pieces of information to justify your point of view. In the end, you have the same evidence for your point of view as a Mormon has for theirs.
Hopefully, that will help you understand where many people on this board are coming from. Hopefully, you can see why your approach isn't going to bear any fruit. Hopefully, you will someday learn to practice the religion you seem so desperate to cling to and actually treat people the way Jesus Christ supposedly wants you to treat them. Otherwise, what are you doing with your life besides making pointless arguments on the Internet?