Current LDS Apologetic position on Native Americans pre-Lehi

[_Drifting]

We LDS Apologists believe everything the Church teaches. There is nothing in conflict with us and the Church.

You have already demonstrated with a number of your posts on different threads that actually don't know what the Church teaches, let alone believe it. Perhaps some observing apologists would like to come out and visibly support you as one of their number. Any takers?

[_DrW]

Even Jesus believed in the Noah story.

Luke 17:26

26 And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.

27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.

So the list of uneducated Mormons who are not as smart as ldsfaqs is:

George Reynolds
Bruce R. McConkie
Gordon B. Hinckley
Jesus H. Christ

We can add Jeffrey Holland to this list.

Jeffrey Holland in the Ensign:

Holy scripture records that “after the waters had receded from off the face of this land it became a choice land above all other lands, a chosen land of the Lord; wherefore the Lord would have that all men should serve him who dwell upon the face thereof.” (Ether 13:2.) Such a special place needed now to be kept apart from other regions, free from the indiscriminate traveler as well as the soldier of fortune.

To guarantee such sanctity the very surface of the earth was rent. In response to God’s decree, the great continents separated and the ocean rushed in to surround them.

The promised place was set apart. Without habitation it waited for the fulfillment of God’s special purposes.

And we can also add Hugh Nibley:

Hugh Nibley said:

“This is the ‘choice land above all other lands’ since the Flood, reserved for the New Jerusalem and the ‘remnant of the house of Joseph . . . like unto the Jerusalem of old’ (Ether 13:2, 6-8). But God placed the promise upon it ‘in his wrath’ (Jacob 1:7; Alma 12:35; Ether 1:33; 2:8; 15:28). Why that, of all things? Because his patience was at an end when men had defiled all the other lands in the glorious and beautiful world he had given them. He would set apart a place where he would stand for no nonsense; there men would be given such freedom as nowhere else, and could enjoy such prosperity as nowhere else."
From Gospel Doctrine Teachers Manual

And then, of course, there are all of those pesky scriptures that these prophets and apostles keep referring to in support of their inspired teachings.

I strongly agree with the others on this thread who suggest that ldsfaqs should learn his/her religion before he/she attempts to defend it.

ldsfaqs has a tenuous grip on the facts and sometimes, it seems, on reality. While often entertaining, this situation does not make for good apologetics. As Drifting suggested, perhaps another apologist should try to help ldsfaqs clarify a few things.

[_ldsfaqs]

I strongly agree with the others on this thread who suggest that ldsfaqs should learn his/her religion before he/she attempts to defend it.

ldsfaqs has a tenuous grip on the facts and sometimes, it seems, on reality. While often entertaining, this situation does not make for good apologetics. As Drifting suggested, perhaps another apologist should try to help ldsfaqs clarify a few things.

Sorry, you are describing YOURSELF....

LDS know our religion, you however do not.

And before you try to claim otherwise, I've been anti-mormon anti-religion, having left the Church, so I actually know what I'm talking about, and how you guys are flawed in your judgments.

[_Quasimodo]

Sorry, you are describing YOURSELF....

Maybe a little adolescent, ldsfaqs? "I know you are, but what am I?" Pee Wee Herman.

How old are you, anyway?

LDS know our religion, you however do not.

Most of the people on this board are at least as educated in Mormon philosophy as you are. Many are way beyond your education level. You should consider this when posting.

And before you try to claim otherwise, I've been anti-mormon anti-religion, having left the Church, so I actually know what I'm talking about, and how you guys are flawed in your judgments.

It doesn't quite have the ring of truth to it, does it, ldsfaqs?

[_schreech]

And before you try to claim otherwise, I've been anti-mormon anti-religion, having left the Church, so I actually know what I'm talking about, and how you guys are flawed in your judgments.

All this really means is that you never really understood anti-mormonism. My testimony of the untruthfulness of the LDS church is obviously stronger than yours ever was.

"It's YOU who've "forgotten" the teachings, or never knew them in the first place." - LDS"faqs"

by the way - constantly mentioning the fact that you were an "anti-mormon" only shows what a shallow, indecisive twat you really are. That said, I am glad to have you here as a representative of the LDS church.

[_ldsfaqs]

I was only a "shallow twat" in the prejudices and ignorance of my YOUTH..... like when most of you changed and think you became know-it-alls.

I however unlike you all, kept learning, learned to put away my judgments until I really knew what was true. And I've known it the last 20 years, even though I STILL study Religious history, and anti-mormonism. You guy's claims against us a JOKES.... how stupid you are.

You were willing to empty your glasses when it came to leaving Mormonism, but you aren't willing to do the same to know if your "current" unrighteous judgments are the actual truth. I happen to know for a fact they are simply a perversion of the truth.

[_Runtu]

I was only a "shallow twat" in the prejudices and ignorance of my YOUTH..... like when most of you changed and think you became know-it-alls.

I however unlike you all, kept learning, learned to put away my judgments until I really knew what was true. And I've known it the last 20 years, even though I STILL study Religious history, and anti-mormonism. You guy's claims against us a JOKES.... how stupid you are.

You were willing to empty your glasses when it came to leaving Mormonism, but you aren't willing to do the same to know if your "current" unrighteous judgments are the actual truth. I happen to know for a fact they are simply a perversion of the truth.

I think most of us are constantly re-evaluating our positions and perspectives. That's what humans are supposed to do. I don't know about you, but I'm still learning, so I don't "know it all," and I recognize that, like anyone else, I may be wrong about everything. I plan on learning every day of my life. Life would get really boring if I ever stopped learning.

I don't believe people who disagree with me are stupid, as you do; nor do I think they have perverted the truth. They just disagree with me. I'm not sure why you have such personal animosity towards us apostates, but I'm sorry you do.

[_Drifting]

Hmmm...

If the current apologeriatric for Lamanites is that there were lots of other people already living there, then what is the current apologeriatric for the Book of Mormon stating that the land had been kept uninhabited? It seems to me these are contradictory...

The book doesn't say that.... That is your "adding" to the word and falsely interpreting and not actually knowing the Book of Mormon.

First, the same terminology is used in the Bible, yet there were PLENTY of people around.
Second, there are many examples of "others" already being there, let alone the population growth which can only be explained by others.

Don't blame LDS for YOUR OWN ignorance of what the Book of Mormon actually teaches.

Bump for ldsfaqs.
Both I and DrW have provided you with official Church quotes showing that it is taught that the land was uninhibited. That's opposite to what you believe. I think that means you are back to being apostate...

[_schreech]

I was only a "shallow twat" in the prejudices and ignorance of my YOUTH..... like when most of you changed and think you became know-it-alls.

I however unlike you all, kept learning, learned to put away my judgments until I really knew what was true. And I've known it the last 20 years, even though I STILL study Religious history, and anti-mormonism. You guy's claims against us a JOKES.... how stupid you are.

You were willing to empty your glasses when it came to leaving Mormonism, but you aren't willing to do the same to know if your "current" unrighteous judgments are the actual truth. I happen to know for a fact they are simply a perversion of the truth.

No, you are STILL a pretty shallow twat. I think I need to add hypocrite to your growing list of contemptible behaviors considering your willingness to call others "know-it-alls" while saying things like "And I've known it the last 20 years" and "I happen to know for a fact[lol] they are simply a perversion of the truth" AND you talk about how you put away your "judgements" while calling people "stupid", "moronic", "know-it-alls" and telling them that their "judgements" are unrighteous. If you didn't come across as such a crotchety old man, I would assume that you are still in middle school.

I really like how "knowing" for fact that the LDS church is true has turned you into such a calm, loving follower of Christ. I am guessing that you will be back out of the church in another couple years once you learn the "truth" a 3rd/4th time....but, hey, maybe not. Maybe you will just spend the rest of your life angry and unfulfilled because smarter people than you continue to leave the church in droves.

by the way - Latching onto apologetic materials while throwing your "prophets, seers and revelators" under the bus is doing you no favors.

[_Darth J]

Also, you shouldn't confuse the naïveté of youth with being the whole truth of a subject.
Too many leave the Church in their late teens and early 20's (a smaller number later), when they never intellectually matured into really knowing the Church.

Coincidentally, the "late teens and early 20's," when people have not "intellectually matured into really knowing the Church," is precisely when the Church sends young men and women out on full-time missions to try and convert people.

Perhaps investigators "shouldn't confuse the naïveté of youth with being the whole truth of a subject."