Why did Brigham Young believe Adam was God?

[_consiglieri]

The simple answer is that you're cherry-picking and not taking everything BY stated into account. For example:

How has it transpired that theological truth is thus so widely disseminated? It is because God was once known on the earth among his children of mankind, as we know one another. Adam was as conversant with his Father who placed him upon this earth as we are conversant with our earthly parents. The Father frequently came to visit his son Adam, and talked and walked with him; and the children of Adam were more or less acquainted with their Grandfather, and their children were more or less acquainted with their Great-Grandfather; and the things that pertain to God and to heaven were as familiar among mankind, in the first ages of their existence on the earth, as these mountains are to our mountain boys, as our gardens are to our wives and children, or as the road to the Western Ocean is to the experienced traveller. [JD 9:149]

Okay, since this is a quote you think favors your position, let's take a close look at it.


Here is your bolded portion:

The Father frequently came to visit his son Adam, and talked and walked with him; and the children of Adam were more or less acquainted with their Grandfather, and their children were more or less acquainted with their Great-Grandfather

"The Father (Elohim) frequently came to visit his son Adam, (This is the Adam that was in the garden of Eden who fell and everything) and talked and walked with him (So far, no problem); and the children of Adam (i.e., Cain, Able, Seth, et al.) were more or less acquainted with their Grandfather (Elohim--he was their grandfather because Elohim was Adam's father) and their children (Enos, etc.) were more or less acquainted with their Great-Grandfather (i.e. Elohim)."

This all makes perfect sense from the Adam-God Theory, for Elohim is the father of Adam, having begotten his body (and spirit) on a prior world--sort of like Adam did for this world.

What this quote does NOT show is that Brigham Young contradicted himself.

I hear this said quite often, and yet I am unaware of any place where Brigham Young contradicted his teachings on Adam-God.

Some are quick to point to places where Brigham Young speaks of Elohim and Adam as two separate people, but that is part of the Adam-God Theory.

Brigham Young never said Adam was Elohim--he said Adam was God--and even specified that Adam is the God of this world, and the only God with whom we have to do. Elohim is higher up on the ladder than this and Elohim's godhood does not apply to only this world, but to all the worlds his children have created, including Adam.

All the Best!

--Consiglieri

[_Runtu]

Okay, since this is a quote you think favors your position, let's take a close look at it.


Here is your bolded portion:

The Father frequently came to visit his son Adam, and talked and walked with him; and the children of Adam were more or less acquainted with their Grandfather, and their children were more or less acquainted with their Great-Grandfather

"The Father (Elohim) frequently came to visit his son Adam, (This is the Adam that was in the garden of Eden who fell and everything) and talked and walked with him (So far, no problem); and the children of Adam (i.e., Cain, Able, Seth, et al.) were more or less acquainted with their Grandfather (Elohim--he was their grandfather because Elohim was Adam's father) and their children (Enos, etc.) were more or less acquainted with their Great-Grandfather (i.e. Elohim)."

This all makes perfect sense from the Adam-God Theory, for Elohim is the father of Adam, having begotten his body (and spirit) on a prior world--sort of like Adam did for this world.

What this quote does NOT show is that Brigham Young contradicted himself.

I hear this said quite often, and yet I am unaware of any place where Brigham Young contradicted his teachings on Adam-God.

Some are quick to point to places where Brigham Young speaks of Elohim and Adam as two separate people, but that is part of the Adam-God Theory.

Brigham Young never said Adam was Elohim--he said Adam was God--and even specified that Adam is the God of this world, and the only God with whom we have to do. Elohim is higher up on the ladder than this and Elohim's godhood does not apply to only this world, but to all the worlds his children have created, including Adam.

All the Best!

--Consiglieri

Those who say Brigham wasn't consistent are generally the cherry-pickers.

[_consiglieri]

And chestnut proclaimers.

[_Fence Sitter]

[
Brigham Young never said Adam was Elohim--he said Adam was God--and even specified that Adam is the God of this world, and the only God with whom we have to do. Elohim is higher up on the ladder than this and Elohim's godhood does not apply to only this world, but to all the worlds his children have created, including Adam.

All the Best!

--Consiglieri

When you look at how the temple sealing ritual was applied at this time, this makes even more sense. The intent was/is to connect priesthood authority (the power to create worlds) all the way back to Adam. The closer you are to Adam the higher up on the ladder you are and the more dominion you have over people below you. This is why so many people had themselves posthumously sealed to Joseph Smith.

[_Runtu]

And chestnut proclaimers.

Some people would have us believe that Brigham Young was just speaking off the cuff and was therefore inconsistent. Apparently, he included it in the Lecture at the Veil on a whim.

[_Daheshist]

In 1832, Brigham Young lived among the Cochranites of Saco, Maine, for four months. He told his companion to go home, which he did, and Brigham Young stayed by himself among the Cochranites. In 1835, Jacob Cochran died, and Brigham Young went to Saco, Maine, with 8 huge wagons he rented, and gathered up all the Cochranites, and brought them to Kirkland, and the Cochranites formed the majority of the early Mormon Church.

Jacob Cochran taught "spiritual wifery"; that all marriages were null and void unless approved by him. He also taught "thrashing" also called "sifting" in which he would throw his followers around onto busshels of hay while saying he was sifting the wheat from the tares. This "sifting" was actually part of the first Endowment used by Brigham Young in Mormon Temples, but it went out of practice after some older Mormons started breaking bones. Cochran also had a ritual in which his followers prayed in a circle, and a re-enactment of the story of Adam and Eve, but the participants were nude. Cochran was quite a scandal in Maine, and was jailed several times for teaching immorality.

Cochran is probably responsible for some of the more "odd" teachings of Brigham Young, such as Blood Atonement, the Curse of Cain, God having sex with Mary, and, of course, Adam-God. I think it is safe to say that Brigham Young became Cochran's "lieutenant" in 1832, as well as a Mormon apostle later.

One of Brigham's Young wife was Cochran's widow. I think you need to look to Jacob Cochran, and not Joseph Smith, as the origin of many of Brigham's more bizaar teachings.

[_Nightlion]

What I am enjoying the most about this thread is the compelling case that is being made to believe that Brigham Young was an inspired prophet of God.

I think this is the problem with BC's position on Adam-God coupled with his position on doctrine.

He gets himself backed into a corner where he has to argue nonsense in order to keep alive his rigid belief system.

If "doctrine" can change, and if a prophet doesn't have to be in agreement with every other prophet in order to still be a prophet, the problem disappears.

The only way "doctrine" cannot change is if we think we have all the answers. We don't. Nobody does. And lots of what we do have is probably wrong.

When knowledge increases in any sphere, it will frequently do so only by overturning previously cherished ideas.

All the Best!

--Consiglieri

Joseph Smith had no problem chucking out the old and bringing in the new. I would insist that if this is not the case then God has left the building.

[_Nightlion]

In 1832, Brigham Young lived among the Cochranites of Saco, Maine, for four months. He told his companion to go home, which he did, and Brigham Young stayed by himself among the Cochranites. In 1835, Jacob Cochran died, and Brigham Young went to Saco, Maine, with 8 huge wagons he rented, and gathered up all the Cochranites, and brought them to Kirtland, and the Cochranites formed the majority of the early Mormon Church.

Jacob Cochran taught "spiritual wifery"; that all marriages were null and void unless approved by him. He also taught "thrashing" also called "sifting" in which he would throw his followers around onto busshels of hay while saying he was sifting the wheat from the tares. This "sifting" was actually part of the first Endowment used by Brigham Young in Mormon Temples, but it went out of practice after some older Mormons started breaking bones. Cochran also had a ritual in which his followers prayed in a circle, and a re-enactment of the story of Adam and Eve, but the participants were nude. Cochran was quite a scandal in Maine, and was jailed several times for teaching immorality.

Cochran is probably responsible for some of the more "odd" teachings of Brigham Young, such as Blood Atonement, the Curse of Cain, God having sex with Mary, and, of course, Adam-God. I think it is safe to say that Brigham Young became Cochran's "lieutenant" in 1832, as well as a Mormon apostle later.

One of Brigham's Young wife was Cochran's widow. I think you need to look to Jacob Cochran, and not Joseph Smith, as the origin of many of Brigham's more bizaar teachings.

Please site a reference. My opinion of Brigham Young has greatly diminished of late.

[_consiglieri]

Some people would have us believe that Brigham Young was just speaking off the cuff and was therefore inconsistent. Apparently, he included it in the Lecture at the Veil on a whim.

When you consider that Brigham Young is on record as teaching the Adam-God Theory since 1852, and had it enshrined in the lecture at the veil of the St. George Temple until at least 1904 (when it was silently removed), the math is the Adam-God Theory has been officially taught in the LDS Church for just over 50-years.

The Adam-God Theory has been officially taught in the LDS Church for approximately 30% of its existence.


All the Best!

--Consiglieri

[_consiglieri]

Joseph Smith had no problem chucking out the old and bringing in the new. I would insist that if this is not the case then God has left the building.

I agree with you totally, Nightlion.

I am wondering if you adhere to the Adam-God Theory.

If so, I have some questions I wanted to ask you about it.

All the Best!

--Consiglieri