OMG, Time Flies! I've been a secret apostate for years now!

[_mfbukowski]

And now you have the role of opposing change in strangers! Like it?

I don't oppose her changing. Not really sure what you are saying though.

[_Darth J]

No one expects you to be PERFECT in this life, just to try and do your very best.

Religion 211: The Life and Teachings of Jesus and His Apostles

46: "Let Us Go On Unto Perfection"

“. . . when we go out of this life, leave this body, we will desire to do many things that we cannot do at all without the body. We will be seriously handicapped, and we will long for the body, we will pray for that early reunion with our bodies. We will know then what advantage it is to have a body.

“Then, every man and woman who is putting off until the next life the task of correcting and overcoming the weakness of the flesh are sentencing themselves to years of bondage, for no man or woman will come forth in the resurrection until they have completed their work, until they have overcome, until they have done as much as they can do. . . .

“The point I have in mind is that we are sentencing ourselves to long periods of bondage, separating our spirits from our bodies, or we are shortening that period, according to the way in which we overcome and master ourselves.” (Ballard, Three Degrees of Glory, pp. 14–15.)

Then we see what Russell M. Nelson said about mortal perfection, as opposed to absolute perfection:

“We do not look for absolute perfection in man. Mortal man is not capable of being absolutely perfect. Nevertheless, it is given to us to be as perfect in the sphere in which we are called to be and to act, as it is for the Father in heaven to be pure and righteous in the more exalted sphere in which he acts. We will find in the scriptures the words of the Savior himself to his disciples, in which he required that they should be perfect, even as their Father in heaven is perfect; that they should be righteous, even as he is righteous. I do not expect that we can be as perfect as Christ, that we can be as righteous as God. But I believe that we can strive for that perfection with the intelligence that we possess, and the knowledge that we have of the principles of life and salvation.” ( Gospel Doctrine, p. 132. Emphasis added.)

Followed by a sure formula for neurosis:

First identify what your weaknesses are. Make a list with your greatest concern at the top and so on in descending rank. Remember, this list is very personal and should be kept secret and private. It is a matter strictly between you and your Savior, and you should never share it in class or in public.

Each morning review your list, particularly noting the problem you want to work on that day. Then pray to the Lord, entreating him for power and promising him you will do all you can. That night report to him on your success or failure. As you find yourself improving (and you will), pray for forgiveness and additional strength. Keep constantly in mind the joy and love your Heavenly Father is feeling toward you because of your efforts. Remember also that your weaknesses can become your strengths; indeed, as each is overcome, it can be a rung of power leading upward to God and your eternal home. Examine Ether 12:27 . What is the purpose of weakness? What does the Lord intend to do with your weaknesses if you let him? Will you let him? If you do, you will find the power of heaven opened to you and you will receive greater joy and peace and a closer relationship with your Savior than most people ever know.

[_just me]

I'm really not sure how to "move on" and be happy without first identifying what is not working and how it has effected me.

It's like there is some secret code that Mormons live by called don't you dare identify things about the church that are negative. If you do you are in big big trouble!

There are negative things that the church prints, says and teaches. Those things have an actual impact on the lives of actual people.

Deal with it.

The way I have dealt with it is by identifying those things so that I can remove them from my life. I have also benefited by figuring out how they impacted me.

[_mfbukowski]

The following is an independent clause:

""Mortal perfection can be achieved."

What do these words mean?[/quote]
There's a lot more of these quotes where this came from
https://LDS.org/general-conference/1995 ... ry=perfect

Mortal Perfection

In this life, certain actions can be perfected. A baseball pitcher can throw a no-hit, no-run ball game. A surgeon can perform an operation without an error. A musician can render a selection without a mistake. One can likewise achieve perfection in being punctual, paying tithing, keeping the Word of Wisdom, and so on. The enormous effort required to attain such self-mastery is rewarded with a deep sense of satisfaction. More importantly, spiritual attainments in mortality accompany us into eternity. 3

James gave a practical standard by which mortal perfection could be measured. He said, “If any man offend not in word, the same is a perfect man.” 4

Scriptures have described Noah, Seth, and Job as perfect men. 5 No doubt the same term might apply to a large number of faithful disciples in various dispensations. Alma said that “there were many, exceedingly great many,” 6 who were pure before the Lord.

This does not mean that these people never made mistakes or never had need of correction. The process of perfection includes challenges to overcome and steps to repentance that may be very painful. 7 There is a proper place for chastisement in the molding of character, for we know that “whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth.” 8

Mortal perfection can be achieved as we try to perform every duty, keep every law, and strive to be as perfect in our sphere as our Heavenly Father is in his. If we do the best we can, the Lord will bless us according to our deeds and the desires of our hearts. 9

[_MrStakhanovite]

First identify what your weaknesses are. Make a list with your greatest concern at the top and so on in descending rank. Remember, this list is very personal and should be kept secret and private. It is a matter strictly between you and your Savior, and you should never share it in class or in public.

Each morning review your list, particularly noting the problem you want to work on that day. Then pray to the Lord, entreating him for power and promising him you will do all you can. That night report to him on your success or failure. As you find yourself improving (and you will), pray for forgiveness and additional strength. Keep constantly in mind the joy and love your Heavenly Father is feeling toward you because of your efforts. Remember also that your weaknesses can become your strengths; indeed, as each is overcome, it can be a rung of power leading upward to God and your eternal home. Examine Ether 12:27 . What is the purpose of weakness? What does the Lord intend to do with your weaknesses if you let him? Will you let him? If you do, you will find the power of heaven opened to you and you will receive greater joy and peace and a closer relationship with your Savior than most people ever know.

WTF

[_Darth J]

Just Me, perhaps you would like to try the formula suggested by the Institute manual I cited.

First identify what things are wrong with the Church. Make a list with your greatest concern at the top and so on in descending rank. Remember, this list is about things that the Church publicly proclaims and that public relations employees of the Church, General Authorities, and self-appointed apologists purport to address in the media (including the internet). It is a matter strictly between you and what is already being said to the whole world, and so you should be able to share it in class or in public, but you can't always because of the friends and family members you're going to lose by virtue of daring to question their cherished beliefs.

Each morning review your list, particularly noting the problem you want to work on that day. Then pray to whatever you understand God to be, entreating him/her/it for power and promising him/her/it you will do all you can. That night report to him/her/it on your success or failure. As you find yourself improving (and you will), pray for forgiveness and additional strength. Keep constantly in mind the joy and love your Heavenly Father/Mother/Entity is feeling toward you because of your efforts. Remember also that your weaknesses can become your strengths; indeed, as each is overcome, it can be a rung of power leading away from dogma and just-so stories. Examine Ether 12:27, and ask yourself if a fleet of Bronze Age submarines with no propulsion or navigation, set adrift in a typhoon, could really make it to America and lead to a vast civilization that wielded steel weaponry, and yet not a shred of evidence remains. What is the purpose of mythology? What does your mind intend to do with this mythology if you let it? Will you let it? If you do, you will find the power of reason and adulthood opened to you and you will receive greater joy and peace and a closer relationship with your sanity than most people ever know.

[Guest]

This just in!

Ok, LDSToronto harassed me into fixing my concert memory.

I went to see Depeche Mode in November 1993 and Nirvana was December 1993. Just several weeks apart. BUT, the kissing happened at McNichol's Arena in my memory and that is where DM played. Also, November is voting time. Sooo, unless my journal entry tells me for sure (which I'm kinda too lazy to look for) it was much more likely the kissing happened at the DM concert.

LMAO

I already knew my memory was shiz. Thanks for letting me take the opportunity to let everyone know it.

The point still remains: articles in church magazines were read and forgotten soon afterward as were all articles in the ensign, way back when, when there was no internet. And then, when a member was to give a talk, she or he went into their closet and pulled out their ensigns in hope of finding support for a talk that they had to give. No one remembered what this GA said or that GA said. All forgot unless of course, something was written that impacted their lives. Such was life before the internet. But critics do not want LDS to forget and have their own minds. And so, I must remember what this GA said and that GA said from 1960 to 2012. Such is life with the internet.

However, the normal Mormon who doesn't search the web for sites like this, still forgest what was in the ensign in 2010 until they need to give a talk and pull it out of their closet in hope that something there will support their talk.

[_zeezrom]

A friend of mine just told me the very pervasive teaching of the Holy Ghost leaving just at the wrong moments has caused a lot of trouble in her life. I agree with this.

The Holy Ghost is this little whimp. You say bad words like "that sucks" or "dammit" and this little ghost runs away. If you start lingering at a photo of Paul Newman's biceps, he flies away. What is wrong with you, Holy Ghost?!

[_mfbukowski]

See it as you like. All the same words are there. I see "strive" and "try" underlined, you do not.

I wish I could do more about how you see it, but ultimately your life is your life.

[_Darth J]

The following is an independent clause:

""Mortal perfection can be achieved."

What do these words mean?

There's a lot more of these quotes where this came from
https://LDS.org/general-conference/1995 ... ry=perfect

Mortal Perfection

In this life, certain actions can be perfected. A baseball pitcher can throw a no-hit, no-run ball game. A surgeon can perform an operation without an error. A musician can render a selection without a mistake. One can likewise achieve perfection in being punctual, paying tithing, keeping the Word of Wisdom, and so on. The enormous effort required to attain such self-mastery is rewarded with a deep sense of satisfaction. More importantly, spiritual attainments in mortality accompany us into eternity. 3

James gave a practical standard by which mortal perfection could be measured. He said, “If any man offend not in word, the same is a perfect man.” 4

Scriptures have described Noah, Seth, and Job as perfect men. 5 No doubt the same term might apply to a large number of faithful disciples in various dispensations. Alma said that “there were many, exceedingly great many,” 6 who were pure before the Lord.

This does not mean that these people never made mistakes or never had need of correction. The process of perfection includes challenges to overcome and steps to repentance that may be very painful. 7 There is a proper place for chastisement in the molding of character, for we know that “whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth.” 8

Mortal perfection can be achieved as we try to perform every duty, keep every law, and strive to be as perfect in our sphere as our Heavenly Father is in his. If we do the best we can, the Lord will bless us according to our deeds and the desires of our hearts. 9

Did you mistakenly interpret your quoting the same source to which I am referring, when I explicitly said he distinguishes between mortal perfection and absolute perfection, as contradicting me?