My First Encounters with Institutional Mormonism

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_beefcalf
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Re: My First Encounters with Institutional Mormonism

Post by _beefcalf »

ldsfaqs wrote:Remember, this would have been essentially a flash flood, or a "temporary" water puddle. For example, for Moses his whole area could have been mostly water, but the rest of the earth could have experienced a flash flood that WOULD NOT be detectable today.
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The flooding that I'm talking about was shortlived, and most water withdrew.
The Geological record would not detect an ENTIRE EARTH covered in Water for a very brief period. Only if it was a long period and/or regular. Thus, you're wrong.


Another apologist naïvely attempting to defend the Bible by ignoring what is written in the Bible.
eschew obfuscation

"I'll let you believers in on a little secret: not only is the LDS church not really true, it's obviously not true." -Sethbag
_SteelHead
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Re: My First Encounters with Institutional Mormonism

Post by _SteelHead »

Oops sorry the her Tetons were sticking out. We are going to have to re baptize her.
It is better to be a warrior in a garden, than a gardener at war.

Some of us, on the other hand, actually prefer a religion that includes some type of correlation with reality.
~Bill Hamblin
_Buffalo
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Re: My First Encounters with Institutional Mormonism

Post by _Buffalo »

ldsfaqs wrote:
That's standard DNA science...... A small group entering into a larger group simply would not show save maybe in rare cases. Surprised you don't know this very common DNA fact. Clearly you are reading too much anti-mormonism rather than the actual DNA sciences.

Further, you are aware that VERY FEW natives of the America's have even been tested?
I'm sure if everyone was tested much more so-called Hebrew DNA would be found.


The Vikings are detectable, and they were barely a blip. Millions of Jaredites and Nephites and Lamanites, though - totally invisible.

Makes perfect sense.
Parley P. Pratt wrote:We must lie to support brother Joseph, it is our duty to do so.

B.R. McConkie, © Intellectual Reserve wrote:There are those who say that revealed religion and organic evolution can be harmonized. This is both false and devilish.
_harmony
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Re: My First Encounters with Institutional Mormonism

Post by _harmony »

SteelHead wrote:Oops sorry the her Tetons were sticking out. We are going to have to re baptize her.


Okay, that was funny!
(Nevo, Jan 23) And the Melchizedek Priesthood may not have been restored until the summer of 1830, several months after the organization of the Church.
_Themis
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Re: My First Encounters with Institutional Mormonism

Post by _Themis »

harmony wrote:
SteelHead wrote:Oops sorry the her Tetons were sticking out. We are going to have to re baptize her.


Okay, that was funny!


Agreed, and good point about losing most of the meaning of the Noah story.
42
_Brackite
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Re: My First Encounters with Institutional Mormonism

Post by _Brackite »

ldsfaqs wrote: ...

Further, you are aware that VERY FEW natives of the America's have even been tested?

...



While this statement was true for back in 1998, it is not true in 2012. At least 15,000 Native Americans, and at least 1,100 Native Mesoamericans have been DNA tested to date.
This DNA tesing of 477 Native Mesoamericans came out just three years ago in 2009.

Linguistic and maternal genetic diversity are not correlated in Native Mexicans:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/article ... =pmcentrez
"And I've said it before, you want to know what Joseph Smith looked like in Nauvoo, just look at Trump." - Fence Sitter
_RayAgostini

Re: My First Encounters with Institutional Mormonism

Post by _RayAgostini »

sock puppet wrote:Are you suggesting, Ray, that those Australian youth that are raised god-fearing are not involved in this rash of violence?


Children raised as "god-fearing" can go as wrong as any other child. Whether they've actually inculcated the "god-belief" is another matter.

Read the sad and sorry tale:

Sad increase of youth violence.

I'm not, for one minute, suggesting that one should become a Mormon, or a Jehovah's Witness, or a Seventh-Day Adventist to avoid this, but that these religions do a lot to guide youth in the right way. A "TBM" youth, as we call them, is very unlikely to engage in or abuse alcohol/drugs, the main cause/s of this violence. I grew up in Catholicism, which many may call a "fairy tale" too, and though I wasn't always a "good Catholic", the values it inculcated were at least a kind of "Ark steadier", and they taught me to always try to "live the Golden Rule". When I failed, Catholicism wasn't the problem - I was.

I suppose we could debate forever and a day whether the communion really did (when it was believed) turn into "the body of Jesus". It wouldn't take too long for critics to shoot Catholicism down in flames - and with its departure, all that is "lovely, praiseworthy, and of good report" - in that religion.
_AlmaBound
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Re: My First Encounters with Institutional Mormonism

Post by _AlmaBound »

Tetons... good point... lol
_DrW
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Re: My First Encounters with Institutional Mormonism

Post by _DrW »

ldsfaqs wrote:That's standard DNA science...... A small group entering into a larger group simply would not show save maybe in rare cases. Surprised you don't know this very common DNA fact. Clearly you are reading too much anti-mormonism rather than the actual DNA sciences.

Further, you are aware that VERY FEW natives of the America's have even been tested?
I'm sure if everyone was tested much more so-called Hebrew DNA would be found.

ldsfaqs,

Do you never tire of making an fool of yourself on this board? Are you completely incapable of reading or understanding what is written here? How can you take advantage of the great learning opportunities afforded you here if you simply refuse to pay attention?

Had you read this thread you would have seen that I explained the data on which the strong scientific consensus on this issue is based. That consensus is that there is no pre-Columbian trans-oceanic contribution to the New World Amerindian genome. In other words, the Book of Mormon narrative is pure fiction and fantasy.

There are any number of recently published peer reviewed scientific papers that support this consensus. I recently came across a review paper that listed and described more than 50 studies of Native American DNA, all of which were were consistent with, or directly support, the "no hebrew DNA" findings described in Dr. Southerton's book.

In fact, one of the studies referenced below represents thousands of samples that were analyzed by an LDS supported genetics research institute, the results of which support a single population genetic source for pre-Columbian Amerindians.

Evidence that has accumulated since the publication of Dr. Southerton's book, some of which was obtained using next-gen high resolution mtDNA mapping, has been perfectly consistent with his findings.

Again, since you appear to have not been paying attention, please see the statement below concerning the scientific consensus regarding the origin of the pre-Columbian Amerindians.

"Here we show, by using 86 complete mitochondrial genomes, that all Native American haplogroups, including haplogroup X, were part of a single founding population, thereby refuting multiple-migration models." http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2427228/?tool=pmcentrez

If you know of any recent and credible peer reviewed papers that find results that are contrary to this consensus, I would be glad to consider them. Until you come up with some evidence, it would probably be better for everyone concerned if you would simply remain silent on this issue.

Below are a few more easily accessed papers that support Dr. Southerton's position.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2008/03/080313-AP-native-amer.html
http://www.plosone.org/article/information:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0000829
http://www.plosone.org/article/information:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0001764
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/10/071025160653.htm
http://www.plosbiology.org/article/information:doi/10.1371/journal.pbio.0030193
Last edited by Guest on Fri Feb 03, 2012 5:12 am, edited 5 times in total.
David Hume: "---Mistakes in philosophy are merely ridiculous, those in religion are dangerous."

DrW: "Mistakes in science are learning opportunities and are eventually corrected."
_beefcalf
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Re: My First Encounters with Institutional Mormonism

Post by _beefcalf »

DrW wrote:Until you come up with some evidence, it would probably be better for everyone concerned if you would simply remain silent on this issue.


I would suggest that the good DrW was almost correct here...

Perhaps this, instead:

"...it would probably be better for you if you would simply remain silent on this issue. Everyone else is having a blast watching you make a bumbling fool of yourself."
eschew obfuscation

"I'll let you believers in on a little secret: not only is the LDS church not really true, it's obviously not true." -Sethbag
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