Why did Jesus die upon the Cross? Mormon vs Daheshist

[Guest]

Mormon view:

Human spirits fought for Jehovah/Jesus and Michael against Lucifer and his angels in Heaven, and as a "reward" the spirits that fought for Jehovah/Jesus and Michael were "cast out" of Heaven down to Earth to enjoy human lives. The Church used to teach some spirits were "less valiant' in the War, and were born "Negroes" but the Church now says: "We never taught that!" They did teach it, for 130 years...but I digress! Anyway, Adam was either brought here from another world, or was made from clay, and Eve was either literally made from one of his rib, or "symbolically" was. Mormon leaders seem to contradict themselves on these issues. Anyway, Lucifer appears in the form of a talking snake, and tempts Eve with a fig from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. God says "Don't eat of it or you will die" and Lucifer says "Eat, and you will not die" but God also says to Adam and Eve "Multiply and have children" but Adam and Eve know they can't have children unless they become mortal and to become mortal they must eat of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil! So, in order to keep this second command of God (multiply) they must break the first commandment (Don't eat). So, they do, and God is "mad" at this and casts them out of the Garden, and "death" and noxious weeds enter into the world.

Why did God cast them out of the Garden when He "wanted" them to eat the fig? Again, this is never explained. Mormons are told to "have faith" (don't question) in their leaders. What their leaders say is TRUTH so just believe it and don't question it.

You know the rest.

Because of the "transgression" of Adam, all his descendants "die". Mormons don't consider Eve a "sinner" but that she was just doing the will of the Father (i.e. obeying her ecclasiastical Leader). Somebody had to pay for the sin of Adam, although we pay for our own sins and not Adam's trangression. Was THIS because Christ paid for Adam's transgression on in Gethsemane and upon the Cross? Mormons are never told. Basically, Mormons are told that because of Adam physical and spiritual death came to all humans, because all humans are descendants of Adam. Resurrection to all because of the shed blood in Gethsemane. Mormons are divided: some believe the atonement happened in Gethsemane not the Cross. Others believe the atonement started in Gethsemane and ended with His death on the Cross. No consensus. Somehow, the atonement of Christ also allows us to re-enter the Presence of the Father, but this is conditioned upon "obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel" which REALLY means we do what Church leaders tell us to do without question until the Resurrection of the dead.

Before Adam at the fig with Eve, there was no death. on this planet. Not even the fruit that Adam and Eve picked from the trees died. The lions and tigers ate grass and fruit too, which did not die. When the talking snake said "Eat, you will not die" he lied, because Adam and Eve became mortal. But, they did what they were supposed to do, because the Serpent was unknowingly doing the will of God. In other words, the Father "fooled" the Serpent into doing His will. Many Mormons are taught that Eve did not "sin" in partaking of the fig, but Adam and Eve were given "conflicting commandments" (i.e. don't eat of the tree, but have children) because they knew that to have children they had to eat of the Tree. WTF????

Some Mormons believe that "death" was on this planet before Adam and Eve, but NOT in the "Garden" which was around what is now Independence, Missouri. But, this view is contrary to what the Church has published since at least the 1940s; that death did not exist on this planet before Adam and Eve ate the fig. Brigham Young considered the story of Adam and Eve "a children's rhyme" not to be taken literal. Orson Pratt said that the story of Eve to be taken from a rib of Adam to be "foolishness". Orson Hyde taught that the Earth was populated before Adam just like it had been before Noah and the Flood. Howevere, thanks to the efforts of Joseph Fielding Smith and Bruce R. McConkie (and the champion of the Smith-McConkie school of thought---Boyd K. Packer), the Church has over the past 50 years been consistently Creationist, although recent Church manuals now say that "the rib story is figurative" because that is what President Spencer W. Kimball wrote in the ENSIGN in 1980.

Anyway, that is the Mormon view.

Daheshist view (note: I'm winging it on what information I know and some guesswork based upon that):

The Angels that "sinned" in the War in Heaven were amalgamated into one being known as "Adam" and cast to Earth. All the rebellious angels are known as the "Sayyals" (spiritual fluids) of Adam. All the descendants of Adam are these "sayyals". Adam would be the "Father" of these Sayyals. Adam not the first man, but came to Earth and and incarnated as a man in ancient Sumeria. Reincarnated 2,000 years later, and had forbidden sex; which caused his "soul" to "fall". Since, his "soul" is also US, all of us also "fell" because his "soul" is the collective sayyals, and we are the sayyals in the flesh. The flesh is "separate" form each other "flesh" but the souls are still "one soul". All the Adamites are connected, because all share the same "Soul". We are simply divisions of the one soul of Adam.

Anyway, Adam is reincarnated and this time is born in Egypt and becomes a king in Egypt, and marries his own grand-daughter (the meaning of Eve comes from his "rib" is that "rib" can also mean "penis" in ancient Hebrew). He builds a Garden complex on the Nile. Eve is "tempted by the serpent" meaning she wants to wear the Cobra-crown, which the kings and queens of Egypt wear as a symbol of the Third-Eye..the "wisdom of the gods". So, the Cobra "tempts" her like a car "whispers" to us and "tempts" us to buy it (figuratively). So, she "tempts" Adam (the king) with her "forbidden fruit" and he "partakes" of it. He marries her. His action (forbidden taboo sex) made this one Soul "fall". Thus, we all "fell" because we share this one SuperSoul. Well, of course, we "die" in the Spirit-World. In other words, when Adam "fell" the Adamites, who were alive and conscious in the Spirit-World, "die". Become dead. No thoughts at all. Not even dreaming. Soul-death. And will remain soul-dead. So, Adam has to return to the material realm and "atone" for the Fall. Yes, Adam himself has to do so, because He effected the Fall, and must "atone" for it, as the Prodigal Son. So, Adam is born of a virgin and the Holy Spirit (Who is Adam too). In other words, the Holy Spirit "enters" Mary, and is born as Jesus. Before his death, Jesus prays to the Father "Let this cup pass from me". The Father agrees, and sends a "similitude" of Jesus (one of His six doppelgangers or "Heavenly Personalities") to atone instead, and Jesus (the one born of Mary) continues to live on Earth for another 50 years "incognito". Jesus has one physical body, and six Heavenly Bodies. Seven bodies. A Adamite has more 1 to 5 Heavenly Bodies (I saw my doppelganger at a Church dance when I was 28 in Newport Beach California....my parents met one of mine doppelgangers when I was 21 in Buena Park, California...they met him at the pool of the place we were staying at...I refused to come see him...I didn't want to look at myself in a speedo!!!).

Adam/Christ: 1 physical body and 6 Heavenly Bodies (doppelgangers)
Adamites: 1 physical body and 1 to 5 Heavenly bodies (depending upon their own level of spirituality)
Pre-Adamites: 1 physical body and 0 Heavenly bodies (they are the "beasts of the field" according to the Bible)

Most humans today are not Adamites. Adam was a man who who first appeared on this planet about 6,000 years ago. The rest are Pre-Adamites; the descendants of the apes. Adamites are Rh-Negative (no primate enzime in blood), and pre-Adamites are Rh-positive (primate/ape enzime in blood). However, all pre-Adamite souls eventually are reincarnated as Adamite souls, so, eventually, the Fall and Atonement has an effect upon all eventually. The "Resurrection" does not mean arising in the physical body, throwing off dirt and breaking away marble in order to come out of the literal tomb, dressed in white robes or in their Sunday best, but rather "resurrection" refers to spirits that are "dead" becoming conscious in the Spirit-World, and not to any resurrection of the physical body; because dust always returns to dust.
We are the rebellious angels, and we are here having lives on Hell planets as punishment, but if we follow The Way we can be "born above" on a Heavenly Planet and return to our first home.

[_Daheshist]

What...no comments?

[_Bond James Bond]

Just wanted to show off my new avatar.

[_Yoda]

Darrick--

Your comments regarding Daheshism are interesting.

However, since you did get some things regarding Mormonism wrong, I am wondering how accurate you are with the Daheshism belief.

According to the Mormon gospel:

Christ suffered for our sins in Gethsemane. He allowed himself to be crucified on the cross and was resurrected in order to give all of us eternal life. Eternal life is a gift to all. While he was on the cross, there was a moment where the Father withdrew his spirit and comfort. Jesus again relived his suffering in Gethsemane. It as at this point that he said, "Father, why hast thou forsaken me?"

Christ died, literally of a broken heart, and was resurrected on the third day.

The entire process...the suffering in the garden, dying on the cross, and the resurrection are all components of what is known as the atonement.

[_Daheshist]

That's what it says in the LDS Bible Dictionary. I was told, and taught, many many many times, as a young Mormon, that Christ suffered for our sins in Gethsemane, not the Cross. Taught that by Institute instructors, etc.

Darrick--

Your comments regarding Daheshism are interesting.

However, since you did get some things regarding Mormonism wrong, I am wondering how accurate you are with the Daheshism belief.

According to the Mormon gospel:

Christ suffered for our sins in Gethsemane. He allowed himself to be crucified on the cross and was resurrected in order to give all of us eternal life. Eternal life is a gift to all. While he was on the cross, there was a moment where the Father withdrew his spirit and comfort. Jesus again relived his suffering in Gethsemane. It as at this point that he said, "Father, why hast thou forsaken me?"

Christ died, literally of a broken heart, and was resurrected on the third day.

The entire process...the suffering in the garden, dying on the cross, and the resurrection are all components of what is known as the atonement.