Why Intellectuals Cannot Become REAL Christians

[_Nightlion]

Those who feel after God in meekness that will capture the attention of Very God regardless of their pre-conditioned considerations of who God is, will be led in their mental distillations to come unto Christ alone.

You say this.
I don't see any reason to think it is true. Humans have existed for 150 million years. During most of that time, the name of Jesus was unknown. Being a meek "caveman" would not have made the story of baby Jesus or Jesus on the cross just pop into their mind (it seems it didn't in fact).
Unless perhaps you mean something else by "coming unto Christ alone" that doesn't even entail knowing anything about Christ's ressurection and atonement.

If I give examples of meek God seeking humans who didn't come to Christ, you will probably just fall into the "true Scottsman" fallacy and tell me they weren't really meek.

I can't see why I need to molest your cave man fantasy for this. Give me a lever long enough and a fulcrum to set it upon and I can move the earth and all the truth thereof saith the sage of the cave. That is why you reach for such extremes.

2 Nephi 26:11-13
11 For the Spirit of the Lord will not always strive with man. And when the Spirit ceaseth to strive with man then cometh speedy destruction, and this grieveth my soul.
12 And as I spake concerning the convincing of the Jews, that Jesus is the very Christ, it must needs be that the Gentiles be convinced also that Jesus is the Christ, the Eternal God;
13 And that he manifesteth himself unto all those who believe in him, by the power of the Holy Ghost; yea, unto every nation, kindred, tongue, and people, working mighty miracles, signs, and wonders, among the children of men according to their faith.

Christ by any other name in every nation will draw unto the same enlightenment. He is the light of the world. Hut yer rhyte I mut be a wee bit bleary as to whut rheel meeknus ays anyweez.

[_Nightlion]

On my way to work this morning I had a great thought about this thread. I think I even had two but forgot one of them.

The learned master their manifold disciplines. Thereafter each becomes their servant at their bidding. Many are used to ascending higher than those who taught them. These think it possible to master religion as well. But alas to no avail. So they must content themselves to master its history, or philosophy, its exegesis, and what not else to very little satisfaction.They must dismiss it withal knowing it is not a real discipline at all proving itself of no service to them.

In true religion we are taught of God. It is not a discipline you can master after the fashion of the world. Its beginning subjects you to God's sovereignty. And in the very first lesson manifests unto you the Almighty Power of the Lord our Righteousness. Religion requires that you come at it the way God demands and not as man is used to coming after their lusts.

The intellect of man will never obtain a supremacy over true religion. We must realize it is something in and of itself entirely not of this world. It is alien and therefore the natural man will fight against it.

[_Nightlion]

I'd have to say I disagree. He was both a true intellectual and more of a Christian than almost anyone I can think of.

Very cool reading about Bonhoeffer. Impressive for sure. Looking at the new age Christianity attributed to him i have to put him without REAL Christian experience.
If you can show me where he once taught the virtue and supremacy of the baptism of fire and of the Holy Ghost I will amend my edict in his favor. Is there a good English biography of him?

[_DrW]

Having read much of the stuff that Nightlion posts on this board, I come away with one strong conclusion, and it is this:

if Nightlion and his ideas, understanding and thought patterns, as expressed on this board, are characteristic of a REAL Christian, then I would say that anyone with sufficient intellect so as to be incapable of being a REAL Christian would be a fortunate individual indeed.

[_Aristotle Smith]

Is there a good English biography of him?

http://www.amazon.com/Bonhoeffer-Pastor ... 1595552464

I hope you stock them at the Apocalrock visitor's center.

[_Blixa]

My current reading of the old Testament is making me think less and less of "god" in this fashion. The super anthropomorphism of Mormonism is hard to shake...

Then how do you think of him? I'm not sure how I could relate to God without some degree of anthropomorphism.

I'm still wrestling with the book of Job. That's mostly what prompted my comment. Obviously there is a strong anthropomorphism in the Judeo-Christian tradition that perhaps reaches its pinnacle in Mormonism. I've been wondering what it would be like to think otherwise.

[_moksha]

I've been wondering what it would be like to think otherwise.

Have you tried envisioning yourself as the Flying Spaghetti Monster and wiggling your noodley appendages?

[_huckelberry]

Nightlion, after putting it off I am going to say something which your comments frequently remind me of. I think imperfect versions of your picture of the true Christian are more common than you speak of. On the other hand completely true versions are not many or few but singular.

You may be surrounded by many Christians, relax, let them and God leaven the loaf.

[_Nightlion]

Nightlion, after putting it off I am going to say something which your comments frequently remind me of. I think imperfect versions of your picture of the true Christian are more common than you speak of. On the other hand completely true versions are not many or few but singular.

You may be surrounded by many Christians, relax, let them and God leaven the loaf.

I don't mind the doubts that abound about my point of view. I am helpless to ever lighten up. Everyone in scriptural history that knows what I know from having experienced what I have experienced never let up or stopped trying to lift people up to the higher state of existence that can only be realized in the experiential knowledge of God as the Maker of your new heart, might, mind and strength. That IS the gospel of Jesus Christ and Jesus himself commanded precision about it. Saying anything else comes of evil. His own words and counsel and commandment, not my interpretation. Where would I be charitable to resign my standard to allow the evil of half ass salvation delusional pretense simply to assuage the pride of man?

[_huckelberry]

trying to lift people up to the higher state of existence that can only be realized in the experiential knowledge of God as the Maker of your new heart, might, mind and strength. That IS the gospel of Jesus Christ

Sorry if I sounded too critical. I do not wish for you to stop. And yes that is the gospel which we all need.

God is a far stronger lifter in this matter than you but I say that not to say that your efforts are improper.