Scandinavia...

[_why me]

What happend to the danes and to the finns? Your cartoon discriminates against these two countries. They are also apart of scandinavia. Of course people from your own country may not think of the finns as scandinavians. But the danes?

[_Hoops]

If you think that the LDS Church comes off looking bad on this board, you really ought to check out Bill Maher.

So you can act like a pretentious ass because the next guy is more of a pretentious ass?

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1m5uDXiciqk

Start at 3:00...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95iRvZOt ... re=related

- VRDRC

[_Hoops]

I have lived and worked in Europe for many years, and have spent a lot of time in Norway, Denmark and Sweden.

Of course you have. I'm not surprised at all. My ONLY surprise is that in this post you were not able to mention that you are well-educated (whatever the he** that means) and are a brilliant scientist, having worked with, discussed weighty matters with, and generally hob-nobbed with the intellectual elites of modern society. Are you sure you and DCP don't have the same playbook?

When we lived there, we did not feel despised, We enjoyed it a great deal.

You don't get it. I didn't write that you, and we, are despised. I wrote that you have a need to be despised.

I will have to tell you that we did not act like some Americans I met while in Europe.

Of course you didn't. Because Americans who don't act like you or don't think like you are stupid, ignorant, and childish.

That is to say, we tried to fit in instead of stand out. My wife and I speak German and we lived in Germany and the UK, where our oldest son was born.

Ah, another plank in the "I'm superior than you" platform.

We were able to fit in quite nicely.

I'll bet.

I would not say that Europeans despised Americans.

Okay. I don't really care if they do or not.

As reflected in Spurven's cartoon, I would say that the attitude of many Europeans towards many Americans (especially those of the Religious Right Republican persuasion)

Yes, let's make sure we all know who your REALLY talking about. See, all the atheist/agnostics/humanists are so brilliant that they get it, but the others... well, they need your explanation and guidance now more than ever.

was more akin to that of an exasperated adult dealing with a somewhat immature and well armed juvenile.

Or a jealous paramour. Nonetheless, if we could only get rid of those pesky, backwoods, ignorant, bigoted, intolerant, narrow-minded, prejudiced, dictatorial, religious conservatives then the world would be just so wonderful.

You characterize the primary reason why I'm not a liberal.

[_Chap]

That long post from Hoops still does nothing to explain why she felt able to claim that:

... DrW reflects a view of America that exists largely, if not entirely, in his own head, that serves his own purposes, and appeals to some deep seeded need to be despised.

('deep seeded' is a typo for 'deep seated', I suspect.)

In her later post she makes it clear that she thinks the person with the need to be despised is Dr. W.:

You don't get it. I didn't write that you, and we, are despised. I wrote that you have a need to be despised.

How on earth can she deduce from anything Dr. W. has said that he feels a need to be despised?

(I leave aside her clear discomfort with the fact that if what he says is true, he is in a much better position to understand what people in Europe are likely to think than she is, because he has lived and worked there. Why should she find this offensive? I am sure that Dr. W. would readily concede, without being offended, that she understands much more about basket-ball players than he does. What's the problem with these simple statements of obvious facts?)

[_Ceeboo]

Hey chap

What's the problem with these simple statements of obvious facts?)

Among other things, the biggest problem seems to be your labeling of mere opinions, perspectives, experiences, and personal views of one person as "obvious facts". (No matter if you happen to agree with them or not)

Peace,
Ceeboo

[_Hoops]

('deep seeded' is a typo for 'deep seated', I suspect.)

Actually, I chose the former over the latter precisely because it makes more metaphorical sense. I fully recognize that the latter is the standard usage. So I took some liberties to make my point.

How on earth can she deduce from anything Dr. W. has said that he feels a need to be despised?

From what he writes.

(I leave aside her clear discomfort with the fact that if what he says is true, he is in a much better position to understand what people in Europe are likely to think than she is,

Oh? Why so? I have no idea what Europeans think because I'm alleged to be a religious conservative?

because he has lived and worked there. Why should she find this offensive?

I don't find that offensive. I couldn't care less where DrW has lived, but he seems to think I should care.

I am sure that Dr. W. would readily concede, without being offended, that she understands much more about basket-ball players than he does. What's the problem with these simple statements of obvious facts?)

I wonder.

[_Chap]

Hey chap

What's the problem with these simple statements of obvious facts?)

Among other things, the biggest problem seems to be your labeling of mere opinions, perspectives, experiences, and personal views of one person as "obvious facts". (No matter if you happen to agree with them or not)

Peace,
Ceeboo

The 'obvious facts' I referred to are that Dr. W., since he has lived and worked in Europe is in a much better position to understand what Europeans think than somebody who has not, and that someone like Hoops who spends a lot of time with basketball players is in a much better position to understand what they think than someone who does not.

If you feel there is serious room for reasonable doubt that spending lots of time in the company of a given group puts you, to that extent, in a better position to know what they think than you would be if you had never met such people, then I suppose you could try to make a case to that effect.

Can't see how, though. Until you do, I feel fairly comfortable with treating this proposition as an obvious factual statement.

[_Chap]

How on earth can she deduce from anything Dr. W. has said that he feels a need to be despised?

From what he writes.

Someone help me with this one ...

(I leave aside her clear discomfort with the fact that if what he says is true, he is in a much better position to understand what people in Europe are likely to think than she is,

Oh? Why so? I have no idea what Europeans think because I'm alleged to be a religious conservative?

No. My point is that if you have never lived and worked amongst Europeans you are likely to be less good at understanding what they think than if you had lived and worked amongst Europeans. The same point would apply whether you were a religious conservative or an atheist anarchist.

Don't you feel that the time you spend with basketball players is likely to mean that you have a much better idea about how they think than I do, since I have never knowingly spoken to anyone who takes basketball seriously in my life? (I am saying nothing against it, just stating a fact about my own experience.)

[Guest]

I am sure that Dr. W. would readily concede, without being offended, that she understands much more about basket-ball players than he does. What's the problem with these simple statements of obvious facts?)

I wonder.

Not only would I readily concede that Hoops knows more about basketball that I do, but would readily concede that Hoops could no doubt clean my clock 1-on-1 on the basketball court.

This however, has nothing to do with the fact that most western Europeans, if asked, would respond that they do not believe in God enough to attend church. They would also say that religious conservative right wing America -first Republicans make them uncomfortable, some of them would say extremely so. This was true when we lived there and is even more true since the Iraq war.

There is a reason that Obama is so popular overseas (and you can trust me when I say he is popular overseas). The reason is that he is not an overtly religious conservative, America-first, end-of-days believing right wing nut job like his predecessor.