G.Palmer Mormon Discussions Podcast on Joseph Smith Sexual Allegations

[_why me]

you start by saying the Holy Ghost testifies, and then you say a person needs critical thinking skills to research their way through the maze. So which is it, the Holy Ghost or critical thinking?

When a Mormon searches the internet about the LDS church they come across a ton of sites that are hostile to the LDS church. They begin to read these sites and a shock and awe experience occurs. They are not critically thinking at all but are surfing the sites and skimming what is written. But the shock is still there. It would not matter if the LDS church had their own interpretation. The doubt is cast and the fishing of members begins. How does the holy ghost compete with such sites? And if one is a nonmember, the doubt is cast too. It is a maze for sure.

[_why me]

33 wives at least.
11 were married with living husbands.
Double figures of them were teenagers when the 30+ year old Joseph married them.
Fanny Alger was before the sealing keys had been restored and so cannot be anything other than an example of lustful Joseph out for a quickie.

The reason polygamy was required was to produce seed - it was commanded for Joseph to have sex with them; did he disobey God?

And which one of these wives said that Joseph Smith was a horny toad? Which one said that he abused them? As far as I can tell, not one. And after he was murdered, no women claimed that he was lustful jerk who was in it for the sex. How to explain it? And fanny's parents never thought that this relationship with fanny was improper. Why should I think any different?

[_Mary]

Cook's article states that William Law became disillusioned with 'organised religion' and gives some understandable reasons as to why Law left the church. He also states that William Law was regionally respected for his abilities as a competent doctor and surgeon.

He also served as one of five directors for the Shullsburg Bank.

He spent the rest of his life quiet and reserved about his experiences with the church and tried to follow christian principles in his own way.

https://byustudies.BYU.edu/PDFLibrary/2 ... fd7502.pdf

If, by their 'fruits ye shall know them' is applied to all, then it seems William Law was a good, honourable man. I'm inclined to take his word with some degree of seriousness.

[_Kishkumen]

I am sorry to hear that Grant was bullied out of the LDS Church.

[_Tobin]

Cook's article states that William Law became disillusioned with 'organised religion' and gives some understandable reasons as to why Law left the church. He also states that William Law was regionally respected for his abilities as a competent doctor and surgeon.

He also served as one of five directors for the Shullsburg Bank.

He spent the rest of his life quiet and reserved about his experiences with the church and tried to follow christian principles in his own way.

https://byustudies.BYU.edu/PDFLibrary/2 ... fd7502.pdf

If, by their 'fruits ye shall know them' is applied to all, then it seems William Law was a good, honourable man. I'm inclined to take his word with some degree of seriousness.

Oh please. We are talking about William Law. I don't care if he baked cookies for the rest of his life and gave them to orphans. He has no credibility given the bitter and hateful things he spewed into his journal (and did immediately after he was excommunicated). I think that gives a very accurate picture of his frame of mind at the time.

[_Equality]

And which one of these wives said that Joseph Smith was a horny toad? Which one said that he abused them? As far as I can tell, not one. And after he was murdered, no women claimed that he was lustful jerk who was in it for the sex. How to explain it? And fanny's parents never thought that this relationship with fanny was improper. Why should I think any different?

Emma, for one. William McLellln recorded in his notebook his extended conversation with Emma Smith on 28 August 1847: “Mrs. Joseph Smith, the widow of the Prophet, told me in 1847 that she knew her husband – the Prophet practiced both adultery and polygamy.”

William E. McLellin Notebook, ca. 1880, John L. Traughber Collection, Ms 666, Manuscripts Division, J. Willard Marriott Library, U of U, Salt lake City, emphasis mine. A photograph from this document was published in The Salt Lake Tribune, 2 Dec. 1985. On 6 Sept. 1878, McLellin was visited by Joseph F. Smith and Orson Pratt. Joseph F. recorded in his diary: “He [McLellin] said Emma Smith told him that Joseph was both a polygamist and an adulterer …” Joseph Fielding Smith, comp., Life of Joseph F. Smith (Salt Lake City: Deseret News Press, 1938), 239.

[_Spurven Ten Sing]

what a crappy interview. Dehlin wasn't taking it seriously at all. Not even listening and even eating during his time with Grant.

Crappy.

[Schreech]

Oh please. We are talking about William Law. I don't care if he baked cookies for the rest of his life and gave them to orphans. He has no credibility given the bitter and hateful things he spewed into his journal (and did immediately after he was excommunicated). I think that gives a very accurate picture of his frame of mind at the time.

Tobin, have you read Cook's article. It is definitely biased towards a 'faith' position, but still recognizes that Law was no 'black dog'.

He didn't bake cookies by the way, but as well as being a respected doctor and surgeon was also a 'prominent and respected citizen in his community'. There is a grey amidst the black and white you know!!

[_Mary]

Tobin, can you give sources for this.

He has no credibility given the bitter and hateful things he spewed into his journal (and did immediately after he was excommunicated).

Which bits in particular do you think gives him no credibility? Cook, again deals with the reasons for his disillusionment in quite a rational manner, and even seems to have some sympathy with his position.

[_Equality]

Oh please. We are talking about William Law. I don't care if he baked cookies for the rest of his life and gave them to orphans. He has no credibility given the bitter and hateful things he spewed into his journal (and did immediately after he was excommunicated). I think that gives a very accurate picture of his frame of mind at the time.

Typical mopologetic tripe. A lot of heated rhetoric, name-calling, smearing, without facts or evidence of any kind. Tobin, how about reading up on the subject and letting us know what, precisely, Law said that wasn't true. The church claims Law "defamed" Joseph Smith with the Nauvoo Expositor, but what he said was true! He accused Smith of being a secret polygamist. In response, Smith said something along the lines of "I'm accused of having seven wives but I can barely keep one" or some other such lie (at the time he had dozens of wives). Smith was the liar; Law told the truth. Even uber-faithful Mormon historians acknowledge that fact. Why can't you?