Big Bang - Evolution

[_Ceeboo]

Thanks for the replies, folks.

Imagine my surprise concerning why/how this thread has evolved (no pun intended) into another discussion sorrounding a Creator/God.

Anyway, do y'all believe that the OP mirrors your individual beliefs?
Do you consider them as facts?

Thanks and peace,
Ceeboo

[_Buffalo]

Thanks for the replies, folks.

Imagine my surprise concerning why/how this thread has evolved (no pun intended) into another discussion sorrounding a Creator/God.

Anyway, do y'all believe that the OP mirrors your individual beliefs?
Do you consider them as facts?

Thanks and peace,
Ceeboo

Minus the few errors (age of the universe as noted by bcspace, and proximate cause of the creation of the earth as noted by me), yes.

Although I definitely wouldn't lecture you for 90 minutes about it!

[_Ceeboo]

Hey Buffalo

Minus the few errors (age of the universe as noted by bcspace

What's 6 and 1/2 billion years amongst friends? :)

yes.

Yes that they are your beleifs? And/or yes that they are facts?

Although I definitely wouldn't lecture you for 90 minutes about it!

Thanks!

And thanks for the replies.

Peace,
Ceeboo

[_bcspace]

Yes that they are your beleifs? And/or yes that they are facts?

People like Buffalo and Darth J are Draper-Whitists. In other words, they accept Conflict Thesis which posits that there is intrinsic intellectual conflict between science and religion. Science generally rejects this notion as do most clerics.

[_honorentheos]

Here (the short version) are the facts that he was trying to teach me.

20 billion years ago, the Big Bang was the cause of our Uviverse. (He taught me that everything in our universe, at the time of this, was much smaller than a penny)
4.5 billion years ago, our earth (as well as everything else in our universe) was formed as a result of the Big Bang.
3.9 billion years ago, the first living thing just came to life (simple/single cell life)

Ever since then, life has slowly and gradually evolved into all we see today.

Do I have this about right?

Thanks and peace,
Ceeboo

Hi Ceeboo,

I think there is an underlying question to the one you ask above that should be on the table. Before trying to prod it out, I think it's worth considering a counter point first. Or, at least consider it my weak attempt at offering a good reason for considering this other question.

For a number of centuries Western civilization relied on the biblical account of Genesis in order to explain why things that they could plainly see were the way they were. When something new was observed, rather than change the structure of the Genesis account a person was more likely to look for ways to fit what they observed into the explanation they had accepted as true. Sometimes this meant that things within the structure changed, but the integrity of the larger explanatory structure more or less remained intact.

I think when we discuss what you bring up in the OP, it's important to acknowledge that the person with whom you shared dinner was working under the same process, just using a different explanatory structure.

What you describe above in the OP as facts are "best guesses" determined using this explanatory structure. I think most people who use this explanatory structure would generally accept them as close enough, but I wouldn't go so far as to call them facts. They seem to do a good job of explaining the evidence available without causing too many problems. If new evidence were to come along that forces a revision to these best guesses, so be it.

Where I think an interesting question can be found, and the one I had suggested we attempt to prod out earlier, is to wonder, "Where did this explanatory structure originate and why does Western civilization seem to be accepting it at an increasing rate while the acceptance of the older explanatory structure is losing ground?"

I think how a person answers this question does two things:

First, it reveals interesting characteristics about the person providing the answer.

Second, I think it leaves more room for believer and unbeliever in a deity to share space within Western civilization.

Since these best guesses we are calling facts are potentially overturned by tomorrow's new findings while the structure for revising the facts is very unlikely to be overhauled any time soon, I think comparing the explantory structures will be much more interesting and valuable.

Consider, for example, where BCSpace would fall when asked which explanatory structure he uses. He may claim they are the same, but I think in reading his posts above one sees he is clearly using the more current explanatory structure. That he fits other elements of his worldview into this framework is really just what comes with having so much diversity in our broader cultural identity.

[_bcspace]

Anyway, do y'all believe that the OP mirrors your individual beliefs?
Do you consider them as facts?

Pretty close. I don't think a few million or billion years makes any difference.

[_Sethbag]

Ceeboo, including the corrections to the timelines and whatnot as previously noted by others, I would agree that these statements describe basic facts about the universe to the best of our current ability to discover such facts.

Is our ability to discover such facts reliable? Who knows? But these appear to be our best ideas to date, and seem to correspond well to what is observed, the laws of physics as we have so far understood them, etc.

[_just me]

Great reply, honor.

Honor and sethbag, please reload your avatars. I miss the amazingness. Thanks!

[_Bond James Bond]

Around 13.75 billion years ago, the Big Bang was the cause of our Uviverse. (He taught me that everything in our universe, at the time of this, was much smaller than a penny)
4.5 billion years ago, our earth was formed by the dust and particle remnants of the formation of the Sun. Over time the particles clumped together in orbit around the Sun until distinct planets were formed.

Around 3.9 billion years ago, the first living thing came to life (simple/single cell life) after the building blocks of life, amino acids, formed over millions and millions of years, in a slow and steady growth towards actual one celled organisms.

Ever since then, life has slowly and gradually evolved into all we see today although there have been numerous stop start periods including mass extinctions over the billions of years that life has existed.

Do I have this about right?

Thanks and peace,
Ceeboo

I fixed with bold.

The bigger question is are you at least an Old-Earth Creationist or are you part of the YEC crowd?

[_Bond James Bond]

A small question in the grand subject, but who is telling the story? It doesn't say "I" created the heavens and the earth. It says "God" created...

Who is the author and is this an authorized biography? A simple forward by God would have cleared things up.

Greatness.