Family dies holding hands, praying

[_Tobin]

Where does James say you need special power and authority from your deity to get results from prayer? He is urging all his hearers to pray in the expectation that it will bring results.
Look, when a man like James (one of the most simple and straightforward speakers in the whole of the New Testament, and said to be a brother of Jesus) says something, I can't see why one wouldn't assume that he simply meant what he said. Pray, and you will get results.
Of course, I think he was wrong.
You don't seem to like that idea, so you have to come up with a way round the problem that does not seem to have a basis in what the man is saying.

Because James statement needs to be read with understanding of the Gospel behind it. Without that context, you get misunderstandings that don't reflect the truth or reality.

[_Hoops]

I would have him stop taking the credit when things go well and stop leading to believe He will intervene when clearly He has no intention of doing so.

Now, do you think a persons prayers can make a difference to wether God acts or not?

So you don't like what He didn't do, but you can't offer what He should do. How exactly would God satisfy you in this specific instance?

[_Chap]

Where does James say you need special power and authority from your deity to get results from prayer? He is urging all his hearers to pray in the expectation that it will bring results.
Look, when a man like James (one of the most simple and straightforward speakers in the whole of the New Testament, and said to be a brother of Jesus) says something, I can't see why one wouldn't assume that he simply meant what he said. Pray, and you will get results.
Of course, I think he was wrong.
You don't seem to like that idea, so you have to come up with a way round the problem that does not seem to have a basis in what the man is saying.

Because James statement needs to be read with understanding of the Gospel behind it. Without that context, you get misunderstandings that don't reflect the truth or reality.

I am disappointed to hear you come out with that kind of stuff, but not surprised, in view of my previous experiences on this board.

(Of all the people in the New Testament that I can imagine demanding that their words should be 'understood in context' rather than in their plain and literal sense, James is the least likely of all.)

[_Tobin]

I am disappointed to hear you come out with that kind of stuff, but not surprised, in view of my previous experiences on this board.
(Of all the people in the New Testament that I can imagine demanding that their words should be 'understood in context' rather than in their plain and literal sense, James is the least likely of all.)

I'm sure you can (and that people do) take his words literally. Knock yourself out. I don't think it is wise to do so in this instance. I think reality would indicate that praying for stuff (or wishing in this case) doesn't summon the ole magic genie in the sky.

[_Chap]

I am disappointed to hear you come out with that kind of stuff, but not surprised, in view of my previous experiences on this board.
(Of all the people in the New Testament that I can imagine demanding that their words should be 'understood in context' rather than in their plain and literal sense, James is the least likely of all.)

I'm sure you can (and that people do) take his words literally. Knock yourself out. I don't think it is wise to do so in this instance. I think reality would indicate that praying for stuff (or wishing in this case) doesn't summon the ole magic genie in the sky.

I am indeed sure that James expected his words to be taken literally too, and you have produced no evidence at all to the contrary.

And of course it does not work. James was wrong. There is no deity that gives you things you pray for, as he believed there was.

It is strange that when you mock people for believing in "the ole magic genie in the sky", you seem to be quite oblivious to the fact that you are mocking James and his fellow Christians in the decades close to Jesus.

[Guest]

I am indeed sure that James expected his words to be taken literally too, and you have produced no evidence at all to the contrary.
And of course it does not work. James was wrong. There is no deity that gives you things you pray for, as he believed there was.
It is strange that when you mock people for believing in "the ole magic genie in the sky", you seem to be quite oblivious to the fact that you are mocking James and his fellow Christians in the decades close to Jesus.

The belief in "the ole magic genie in the sky" is merely an immature belief in God. It is similar to a child's belief in Santa Claus. And I'm not saying there aren't people that hold and express these views. However, as you noted, it just ain't so.

I also strongly disagree with your view that this simplistic belief in God was held by the early saints and Jesus. Jesus was God after all and very intelligent. I am also sure that all of them were well aware of reality and that God wasn't dropping presents from the sky. Not even in that day and age.

[_Themis]

I am indeed sure that James expected his words to be taken literally too, and you have produced no evidence at all to the contrary.

And of course it does not work. James was wrong. There is no deity that gives you things you pray for, as he believed there was.

It is strange that when you mock people for believing in "the ole magic genie in the sky", you seem to be quite oblivious to the fact that you are mocking James and his fellow Christians in the decades close to Jesus.

Got to love the inconsistency of Tobin. He argues go ask God and he will answer, but in this thread not so much LOL

[_Chap]

I am indeed sure that James expected his words to be taken literally too, and you have produced no evidence at all to the contrary.
And of course it does not work. James was wrong. There is no deity that gives you things you pray for, as he believed there was.
It is strange that when you mock people for believing in "the ole magic genie in the sky", you seem to be quite oblivious to the fact that you are mocking James and his fellow Christians in the decades close to Jesus.

The belief in "the ole magic genie in the sky" is merely an immature belief in God. It is similar to a child's belief in Santa Claus. And I'm not saying there aren't people that hold and express these views. However, as you noted, it just ain't so.

I also strongly disagree with your view that this simplistic belief in God was held by the early saints and Jesus. Jesus was God after all and every intelligent. I am also sure that all of them were well aware of reality and that God wasn't dropping presents from the sky. Not even in that day and age.

The idea that the beliefs of Jesus and his disciples are best deduced on the assumption that they must be fundamentally identical to those of a person like yourself in the 21st century rather than by reading what they actually said seems to have no basis other than your extreme discomfort with the consequences of the second procedure.

But, as you so delicately put it to me a little while ago 'knock yourself out'.

[_Tobin]

I am indeed sure that James expected his words to be taken literally too, and you have produced no evidence at all to the contrary.
And of course it does not work. James was wrong. There is no deity that gives you things you pray for, as he believed there was.
It is strange that when you mock people for believing in "the ole magic genie in the sky", you seem to be quite oblivious to the fact that you are mocking James and his fellow Christians in the decades close to Jesus.

Got to love the inconsistency of Tobin. He argues go ask God and he will answer, but in this thread not so much LOL

Read the thread. I'm being very consistent actually. I just don't believe in "the ole magic genie in the sky" is all. I've already stated that you can recieve gifts of the spirit and knowledge of God. You aren't going to get a new porsche though.

[_Buffalo]

It's just too bad that holy scripture teaches the magic genie view of God, isn't' it?

I disagree.

Jesus said God will grant you anything you ask for, even if your faith is weak. Sounds like a magic genie to me.