Is the portrayal of Joseph Smith fair?

[_Mary]

Isn't it interesting just how critics take this testimony seriously but not the deathbed testimony of the witnesses. Those deathbed testimonies they just wave their hand and dismiss them.

And are you an example of this? yes or no?

I don't think you can relate the two together in this instance Why me. Sylvia is talking about something concrete, the relationship of her daughter to her perceived biological father, not some mystical or religious experience??

[_Themis]

Isn't it interesting just how critics take this testimony seriously but not the deathbed testimony of the witnesses. Those deathbed testimonies they just wave their hand and dismiss them.

And are you an example of this? yes or no?

I don't think you can relate the two together in this instance Why me. Sylvia is talking about something concrete, the relationship of her daughter to her perceived biological father, not some mystical or religious experience??

Taking witnesses testimony seriously to whyme is interpreting them as whyme thinks we should. I instead like to look at the whole picture, and I think at least most of them believed. It's also interesting that whyme likes to ignore other evidence that may question exactly how the expereince went down.

[Schreech]

Was watching this last night.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gylaYQ04PIk

It's Part IV of an interview that Dan Wotherspoon did with Dan Peterson.

6 minutes in, approx, they start to talk about polyandry, and Dan does recognise that this issue is 'problematic' for many people, and seems to understand why it is problematic. That's good. I feel that even where they don't agree, at least the apologists are understanding why people find such issues a large stumbling block.

Dan P, is obviously sincere and obviously has a strong testimony of Joseph Smith as basically a 'good man'.

I wish I could think like this. One of the issues for me is that the church was so good at emphasizing the seriousness of keeping the commandments of God, particularly the Law of Chastity. It was a sin next to murder in seriousness. I took it seriously. I believed it.

That Law may have included polygamy, fair enough, but polyandry..???

[_Tobin]

That Law may have included polygamy, fair enough, but polyandry..???

So far all it is a charge that is easy to make and there is virtually no proof. All we have is one credible statement without any specifics and that can be read inline with the understanding of the dynastic sealing (which was also a secret). She may have simply been expressing her sentiment that in the eternities her daughter would be the prophet's daughter. I look forward to the genetic testing and seeing what is determined. I'm not going to just dismiss it if it is unfavorable to my view and I found it surprising that you would.

[_Mary]

So far all it is a charge that is easy to make and there is virtually no proof. All we have is one credible statement without any specifics and that can be read inline with the understanding of the dynastic sealing (which was also a secret). She may have simply been expressing her sentiment that in the eternities her daughter would be the prophet's daughter. I look forward to the genetic testing and seeing what is determined. I'm not going to just dismiss it if it is unfavorable to my view and I found it surprising that you would.

Did you watch the video? Daniel Peterson is not disputing that polyandry existed and was practised Tobin...

[_Drifting]

So far all it is a charge that is easy to make and there is virtually no proof. All we have is one credible statement without any specifics and that can be read inline with the understanding of the dynastic sealing (which was also a secret). She may have simply been expressing her sentiment that in the eternities her daughter would be the prophet's daughter. I look forward to the genetic testing and seeing what is determined. I'm not going to just dismiss it if it is unfavorable to my view and I found it surprising that you would.

Did you watch the video? Daniel Peterson is not disputing that polyandry existed and was practised Tobin...

FamilySearch.com

Joseph Smith numerous wives are listed and it is relatively simple (see what I did there) to check the dates against their other living husbands.

Joseph Smith married women who were already married to living husbands - Fact.

D&C 132 commands polygamy specifically for the purpose of having children.
If Joseph didn't try and have children with these women he was a fallen Prophet intent on disobeying God.

[_Tobin]

So far all it is a charge that is easy to make and there is virtually no proof. All we have is one credible statement without any specifics and that can be read inline with the understanding of the dynastic sealing (which was also a secret). She may have simply been expressing her sentiment that in the eternities her daughter would be the prophet's daughter. I look forward to the genetic testing and seeing what is determined. I'm not going to just dismiss it if it is unfavorable to my view and I found it surprising that you would.

Did you watch the video? Daniel Peterson is not disputing that polyandry existed and was practised Tobin...

He's entitled to his opinion and is talking off the top of his head. He's mistaken to go there and I find the concept offensive. Polyandry is akin to adultery and if DCP wants to jump through the mental gymnastics of rationalizing adultery it to himself, that is his problem. I did hear him try to justify the behavior and it was a stupid comment.

[_Themis]

He's entitled to his opinion and is talking off the top of his head. He's mistaken to go there and I find the concept offensive. Polyandry is akin to adultery and if DCP wants to jump through the mental gymnastics of rationalizing adultery it to himself, that is his problem. I did hear him try to justify the behavior and it was a stupid comment.

He does because he recognizes plenty of evidence that Joseph did in fact marry a number of already married women. You may not like it, but it's there.

by the way You realize that BY married one of Joseph's wives Zina, and had children with her, even though she remained married to her first husband.

[_Drifting]

He's entitled to his opinion and is talking off the top of his head. He's mistaken to go there and I find the concept offensive. Polyandry is akin to adultery and if DCP wants to jump through the mental gymnastics of rationalizing adultery it to himself, that is his problem. I did hear him try to justify the behavior and it was a stupid comment.

He does because he recognizes plenty of evidence that Joseph did in fact marry a number of already married women. You may not like it, but it's there.

www.familysearch.com

[_DarkHelmet]

One of the issues for me is that the church was so good at emphasizing the seriousness of keeping the commandments of God, particularly the Law of Chastity. It was a sin next to murder in seriousness. I took it seriously. I believed it.

That Law may have included polygamy, fair enough, but polyandry..???

I don't know why polygamy would be more chaste than polyandry. I guess it's a cultural thing. In Western society, multiple partners is considered immoral. In some cultures polygamy is morally acceptable. The only difference between polygamy and polyandry is the gender of the players. Maybe it's because polygamy+polyandry is associated with a hippy commune.