direct descendants of Jesus

[_Tobin]

Tobin, I did not state that every time the Bible mentioned wine that it was grape juice. My statement was that it didn't always mean wine as we think of it today, and the verse I gave showed that.

Wrong. Wine is exactly what we think of it today. The difference is that we can ensure consistent quality in the wine is all. Wine was never grape juice that accidentally went bad - it has always been wine!!!

[_gdemetz]

No Tobin, as usual, you are wrong! Was it wine as you think of it hanging in the clusters of the verse I quoted, or was it grape juice hanging in those clusters?!?

[_Drifting]

No Tobin, as usual, you are wrong! Was it wine as you think of it hanging in the clusters of the verse I quoted, or was it grape juice hanging in those clusters?!?

What kind of wine did Joseph Smith drink in Carthage jail?
What kind if wine does the D&C mean should be used for the sacrament?

[_gdemetz]

I would guess the strong kind, and I think that it was a good revelation to change that to water else someone may be tempted to take much more than his share and lose the spirit!

[_Tobin]

No Tobin, as usual, you are wrong! Was it wine as you think of it hanging in the clusters of the verse I quoted, or was it grape juice hanging in those clusters?!?

I hate to break it to you gdemetz, but it is really only Mormons that even try to pull this junk and it is completely idiotic. And I wish you'd actually provide references to the scriptures that you quote instead of pulling them out of the air. You are citing Isaiah 65:8 and "new wine" is actually "must" (תירושׁ tyrôsh) that is yet to be fermented and turned into wine. It is completely different than the greek word used in the Wedding Feast in Canna, which was "oinos". This word can mean either grape juice or wine; however, the meaning becomes clear in what is described. It says, "when men have well drunk" uses the greek "methusthosin" which is based on the greek root word "mathuo" meaning "to be drunk with wine". It is wine, NOT grape juice.

[_Nightlion]

I am not aware of any official source, but it is consistent with the beliefs of many who hod that He "fulfilled all righteousness." That's why I recommended "The Holy Seed" which examines this question in great detail considering the very limited evidence available.

Um. Mormon unthunk through adolescent doctrine unaided by the gift of the Holy Ghost thinks Christ having fulfilled all righteousness included marriage uh huh. Well, accordingly he could NOT have been God then in his mortality because he would have needed to live a righteous life sealed to at least one woman for time and all eternity and get his exaltation sealed upon him and be crowned with eternal life BEFORE he would be worthy to atone for the sins of the world. And if he were not God how did he live a sinless life up until he was transfigured upon the mount with Peter James and John? I expect that is when you are going to tell me Christ BECAME a God! If that is so how could he be Immanuel at his birth?

See what I mean about not thinking through your doctrine? That is immature and adolescent. You know your doctrine is perfect when there are no barbs clinging to it that go unanswered.

Okay, I will tell you all, even though nobody will keep this in their heads, the reason Christ said to John, "Suffer it to be so now, for thus it becometh us to fulfill all righteousness" is that in every stage of existence Christ is the Only Begotten of the Father. So Christ was baptize so that the Holy Ghost was given as a sign of his acceptance and the VOICE of the Father declaring him as being the son of the Father.

All righteousness ends when there is nothing more for YOU to do. Christ was already God and did not need to be married to be a seed bearing little g god because he was from all eternity the Very Eternal Father(See Book of Mormon for that) and that God which I have already expounded to your unwashed minds.

We will be born again by taking upon us the name of Christ. Christ was born of The Father who put his name upon the Son. Christ will put his name upon us.........possibly.....if we strive to take upon us his name with full purpose of heart.

The polygamists (gdemetz) are just as apostate as the LDS Mormons are. Neither teach or have a standard that requires people to include God in their gospel and who are ever truly visited of God and wrought upon and cleansed and become new creatures.

[_Nightlion]

As far as Joseph Smith being the Holy Spirit, that is, perhaps, baloney. However, it is in the plan for all of Heavenly Father's spirit children to gain a body, and it follows that a different spirit would necessarily have to take over those duties once it became time for the current one to gain a body.

Did you read my explanation of how we come by The Holy Ghost? Ghost of the Holy Father. The body that sits upon the throne of power is traded out. The one who vacates becomes the next Holy Ghost. As all three of the Very Eternal Fathers move a notch on their one eternal round of a course whereby they tread in the track of the Father that precedes them. Christ called it an eternal round and Joseph Smith declared that Christ inherits what the Father had before.

The Father told Jesus that he had both glorified his name and that he would glorify it again. Meaning that Jesus had before been a Christ and that he would in turn be so again. And Jesus told the Jews in John 6 what and if they should see him ascend up to where he was before. Meaning sitting upon the very throne of power.

And the D&C declares that after the city of the throne of God is move here to this planet it will be Christ's, and that means Jesus will be sitting upon that very same throne of power where his Father presently sits. Plus I removed all the barbs so that this doctrine is smooth and a polished shaft in the quiver of the Lord. Put up a barb and I will show it so smootheded.

The reason people do not believe my doctrine is because they do not have the Holy Ghost to assure them and they have to go on blindly as they were led by the blind.

[_lulu]

However, I would recommend a book entitled, "The Holy Seed."

Author? Publisher?

I'm interested.

Thanks.

[_gdemetz]

I'm sorry, I don't really remember. I read it so many years ago, and the book was borrowed.

[_lulu]

I'm sorry, I don't really remember. I read it so many years ago, and the book was borrowed.

Might it have been this one?

The Holy Seed, Gjergj Delia, Dorrance Publishing 2011

http://dorrance.stores.yahoo.net/holyseed.html

Do you remember anything about it? Basic argument, evidence it was using?

Have you ever read Vern Swanson's Dynasty of the Holy Grail: Mormonism's Sacred Bloodline? Thesis: Joseph Smith descended for JC. Joseph Smith, Sr. and Lucy rejoined the separated genetic lines. Interesting premise but when I tried to trace his footnotes back, they really didn't lead anywhere.