Is homosexuality a choice?

[_lulu]

I don't know that they do, but apparently he feels that he is ready for that step.

What does the bride-to-be say, Mr. Ignore My Question? Or are you saying she just doesn't matter?

[_Droopy]

You have a great deal of homework to do at NARTH and other websites...

Robert Spitzer just apologized for and retracted this oft criticized study for its flaws.

http://www.nydailynews.com/life-style/h ... -1.1060226

http://prospect.org/article/my-so-called-ex-gay-life

That's your answer? A single individual has second thoughts about a specific study? The effectiveness of reparative therapy for motivated individuals is well established. Spitzer is not necessary or key to the overall picture.

The chase to which we must all cut is still the same: the brain sciences and genetics has not even approached a plausible argument or provided a shred of empirical evidence that homosexuality is grounded in genetic inheritance and is an essential human characteristic reducible to discreet biological cause = effect phenomena.

All previous attempts at this kind of politicized science (very similar to the now nose diving AGW fraud driven by the same people with similar ideological agendas) were discredited upon the drying of the ink, and doubtless the Anointed will continue to try to fool the public by conflating data with interpretation of data, fact with theory, sound theory with hypothesis, theory and hypothesis with speculative conjecture, serious conjecture with wish fantasy, and wrapping ideology in the noble robes of "science."

All a part of the service...

[_lulu]

The effectiveness of reparative therapy for motivated individuals is well established.

Post your peer reviewed references, Droopy.

Or are you going to run and hide under the bed with gdemetz?

[_Buffalo]

The effectiveness of reparative therapy for motivated individuals is well established. Spitzer is not necessary or key to the overall picture.

Just as well established as auditing or therapeutic colonics.

Are you a success story, Droopy? Can you share your experiences?

[_Daniel2]

The effectiveness of reparative therapy for motivated individuals is well established.

Post your peer reviewed references, Droopy.

Droopy's claim that the efficacy of reparative therapy is "well established" is bold, indeed.

I "third" this CFR for peer-reviewed references (counting Buffalo's comment as the "second").

Daniel2

[_EAllusion]

That's your answer? A single individual has second thoughts about a specific study?

In this thread you cited that study and condescended your audience with it. It's one of the most common ones used by the anti-gay crowd. Knowing you, I presumed you had quoted it. So I hunted down a post where you did and posted the the fact that the author has sincerely apologized for and retracted it. I didn't quote your entire post because that's wasteful. And now we're here.

The effectiveness of reparative therapy for motivated individuals is well established.

No it's not. The evidence is overwhelmingly against reparative therapy being indicated. The studies in favor of it, if they can be called that, are methodologically sketchy and published in pay to publish or incestuous journals of ill-repute by fringe groups motivated typically out of religious opposition to homosexuality. And even those tend not to report a lot of success while ignoring the harm because they view being gay itself as the ultimate harm. What made the Spitzer study popular among NARTH types and relatively unique was that it was done by a credible scientist and was published in a credible journal. It was a junk study [read my links], but at least it had that going for it.

So by all means, post your "well established" literature. Bonus points if you can manage to quote some not specifically debunked in my first link.

[_Morley]

Joining this chorus. Please show your work, Droopy.

[_Darth J]

The chase to which we must all cut is still the same: the brain sciences and genetics has not even approached a plausible argument or provided a shred of empirical evidence that homosexuality is grounded in genetic inheritance and is an essential human characteristic reducible to discreet biological cause = effect phenomena.

Droopy, can you cite one of these sources where it is asserted that homosexuality is caused purely by genetics?

Just so nobody gets confused and mistakes your statement for a straw man, or mistakes you for an uninformed fanatic who parrots religious right talking points.

[_EAllusion]

Before Droopy drops on us his amazing cache of research from a focus on the family type website, here's the APA's task force document on the subject:

http://www.apa.org/pi/lgbt/resources/th ... sponse.pdf

It's pretty good if you have time to read it.

It concludes that the studies on it suck [are methodologically poor] and claims that it is effective are not supported. It claims the evidence such as it is indicates that any enduring changes in orientation is at least very uncommon and may be associated with general reduction of sexual drive. It also points out serious ethical concerns with them due to inadequate attention to safety. Such attempts may increase distress and poor mental health in patients and there has been no rigorous effort to control for this.

[_EAllusion]

On the off chance that Droopy views himself as a reparative therapy success story, it's worth noting that there are bisexuals to some degree out there who, usually because of religious reasons, seek to rid themselves of same sex attraction and view themselves as "cured" when they are able to focus on opposite sex relationships.

So let's say you have a bisexual. Let's call him Wade. E. No, that's too obvious. How about W. Englund? Anyway, Mr. Englund is troubled by being romantically drawn to a man. He goes in for therapy and through time and focusing on other females rids himself of this man-crush in favor of a woman. Huzzah, he's cured! Well, not necessarily. His orientation might be the same as it ever was. He just happens to be attracted to both sexes and has been able to focus a subgroup that is in his league, so to speak. Studies are supposed to control for this, and if Droopy has personally experienced it, he should as well.