From YM lesson manual--"When the prophet speaks..."

[_Polygamy-Porter]

So then, we have this little debate ongoing.. you know about where the Book of Mormon lands exist?

Are there ANY quotes from any of the past and present "prophets" concerning this?

Cuz, that would effectively shut down MI/FARMS, once the prophet spoke.

[_Infymus]

Not surprised this kind of drivel would be found in the Lord's rag.

Here is FAIR explaining it away:

http://www.mormondialogue.org/topic/548 ... e-prophet/

"The thinking has been done" philosophy may have been crystallized as a result of a June 1945 Ward Teaching Message that all but our detractors have long since forgotten. They love dredging up little-known statements and trying to establish those ideas as church doctrine or position rather than the exceptions that they are.

Let us read a quote from the message and then see what the President of the Church wrote about that particular Ward Teaching Message, just a few months after it appeared. Obviously the detractors never quote the President's letter since it doesn't support their thesis. Is it too much to hope that once the detractors read this letter from the President of the Church, they would stop quoting the 50-year-old Ward Teaching Message?

First the June 1945 message: "When our leaders speak, the thinking has been done. When they propose a plan—it is God's plan. When they point the way, there is no discussion, it should mark the end of controversy," stated a part of the ward teaching message printed in the
Improvement Era, June 1945, p. 345.

For the full story, a letter from President George Albert Smith, in response to a query about this particular ward teaching directive, needs to be considered. The message "was not prepared by one of our leaders," he writes. "However, one or more of them inadvertently permitted the paragraph to pass uncensored. By their so doing, not a few members of the Church have been upset in their feelings, and General Authorities have been embarrassed. I am pleased to assure you that you are right in your attitude that the passage quoted does not express the true position of the Church. Even to imply that members of the Church are not to do their own thinking is grossly to misrepresent the true ideal of the Church (President Smith's November 16, 1945, letter to J. Raymond Cope, Ph.D.).

Oops. Sorry "thesometimesaint", it has been parroted again in your own Cult rag.

Note above the "The message "was not prepared by one of our leaders,"" statement. Again, more apologetics.

Hey Cult: If you didn't mean to print it, DON'T F'N PRINT IT.

Again this shows that Shades' dichotomy of the Internet Mormon vs the Chapel Mormon rings absolutely true.

[_consiglieri]

I don't know what the full quote is--i.e., what comes between "speaks" and "the debate" because the lesson manual chose to omit it so the sentence reads as it does above.

Nothing much was in between.

Personal opinions may vary. Eternal principles never do. When the prophet speaks, sisters, the debate is over. So I urge us all to provide powerful unity as women for those things we can agree upon—family, chastity, accountability to the Lord, responsibility in the community, sharing the gospel.

http://www.LDS.org/ensign/1978/11/if-we-want-to-go-up-we-have-to-get-on?lang=eng

It looks like the most important part was deleted--the word "sisters."

This applies only to women in the church.

It should never have been put in a young men's manual.

All the Best!

--Consiglieri

[_consiglieri]

Again this shows that Shades' dichotomy of the Internet Mormon vs the Chapel Mormon rings absolutely true.

Although I am glad President GAS wrote that letter, it would have had more meaning from an institutional level if it had been published as a correction in a subsequent Improvement Era.

The fact that President GAS held an opposing view seems to make not much as a dent in the continuing repetition of this canard.

All the Best!

--Consiglieri

[_DarkHelmet]

It is official doctrine based on BC Space's definition. And anyone who was ever a member of the church knows it has always been actively taught.

[_Rollo Tomasi]

Oops. Sorry "thesometimesaint", it has been parroted again in your own Cult rag.

Note above the "The message "was not prepared by one of our leaders,"" statement. Again, more apologetics.

Hey Cult: If you didn't mean to print it, DON'T F'N PRINT IT.

Again this shows that Shades' dichotomy of the Internet Mormon vs the Chapel Mormon rings absolutely true.

In addition, N. Eldon Tanner, then in the First Presidency and himself a "prophet, seer and revelator," endorsed Pres. Cannon's "debate" statement in his own talk, which appeared in the Ensign in 1979 (in the monthly FP message, no less). Here is the link:

http://www.LDS.org/ensign/1979/08/the-d ... r?lang=eng

Here is the last paragraph of this talk:

We must turn all this about. We cannot serve God and mammon. Whose side are we on? When the prophet speaks the debate is over.

Because this kind of thinking has never been publicly repudiated, the YM manual is not wrong to include it (just stupid, in my opinion ... and very, very scary).

[_consiglieri]

Because this kind of thinking has never been publicly repudiated, the YM manual is not wrong to include it (just stupid, in my opinion).

I think this is the consistent doctrine of the LDS Church since Wilford Woodruff claimed the prophet will never lead the church astray. Of course, he was saying this in order to buttress his controversial decision to abandon plural marriage.

But really, this is just another example of the disparity in what the LDS Church teaches its members versus how it wants to present itself to the world.

All the Best!

--Consiglieri

[_Equality]

Sister Cannon made the statement in 1978. It was clearly a message for those uppity sisters who dared to voice their own political opinion that the ERA be passed. The prophet had spoken against the ERA and told the women to get in line, but not all of them were willing. So the prophet sent Sister Cannon out to guilt-trip the sisters who dared to think they might be equal to men or entitled to equal treatment under the law.