Why I don't fear hell

[_zeezrom]

As a teen working my way through everything Twain, my favorite heaven/hell story was Captain Stormfield's Visit to Heaven.

Thank you Morley!

[_Equality]

There's actually quite a developed doctrine around the concept of hell in Mormonism.

The Mormon concept of hell is about as clear and as stable as the Mormon concept of God. If you try and make sense out of everything Joseph Smith said or wrote on either subject, you can draw any conclusion you want.

In one sense I can agree with you. The quotes you provided speak about hell as a nasty place that you would definitely want to avoid. But since the doctrine has been so fluid, you can also argue that it's temporary, everyone gets a kingdom of glory, and that the stuff about the eternity of hell is just metaphoric.

The bottom line is that I guess you can make hell whatever the hell you want it to me in Mormonism. I just never was around people who were into the more heavy duty hell, they usually preferred to emphasize that no one stays in spirit prison and that everyone gets a kingdom of glory in the end.

True, but I think in the context of ex-Mormons, the more fear-inducing aspects of the Mormon hell doctrine come into play. For your average TBM, hell is not necessarily a frightful thing to contemplate because the assumption is that you are probably at least terrestrial if not celestial material. But when someone leaves the church and has his priesthood stripped, and loses all the "blessings" of baptism, the more severe scriptural descriptions of hell are implicated. I am sure the TBMs think that Mormon apostates like me are going to hell to suffer all the pain that Jesus suffered, and that I may even be destined for "outer darkness." Best case, I am in store for at least 1000 years of misery and darkness before getting a telestial resurrection. Knowing that this is what our TBM friends and family think is the future we can look forward to is what motivates ex-Mos to clarify that we are really not concerned about going to hell. Indeed, the TBM concept of hell and the fate of apostates keeps many non-believers in the church as NOMs, because they do not want their believing family members (often an elderly parent or grandparent) to suffer anxiety over the welfare of their apostate soul.

[_Juggler Vain]

The Mormon concept of hell is about as clear and as stable as the Mormon concept of God. If you try and make sense out of everything Joseph Smith said or wrote on either subject, you can draw any conclusion you want.

In one sense I can agree with you. The quotes you provided speak about hell as a nasty place that you would definitely want to avoid. But since the doctrine has been so fluid, you can also argue that it's temporary, everyone gets a kingdom of glory, and that the stuff about the eternity of hell is just metaphoric.

The bottom line is that I guess you can make hell whatever the hell you want it to me in Mormonism. I just never was around people who were into the more heavy duty hell, they usually preferred to emphasize that no one stays in spirit prison and that everyone gets a kingdom of glory in the end.

True, but I think in the context of ex-Mormons, the more fear-inducing aspects of the Mormon hell doctrine come into play. For your average TBM, hell is not necessarily a frightful thing to contemplate because the assumption is that you are probably at least terrestrial if not celestial material. But when someone leaves the church and has his priesthood stripped, and loses all the "blessings" of baptism, the more severe scriptural descriptions of hell are implicated. I am sure the TBMs think that Mormon apostates like me are going to hell to suffer all the pain that Jesus suffered, and that I may even be destined for "outer darkness." Best case, I am in store for at least 1000 years of misery and darkness before getting a telestial resurrection. Knowing that this is what our TBM friends and family think is the future we can look forward to is what motivates ex-Mos to clarify that we are really not concerned about going to hell. Indeed, the TBM concept of hell and the fate of apostates keeps many non-believers in the church as NOMs, because they do not want their believing family members (often an elderly parent or grandparent) to suffer anxiety over the welfare of their apostate soul.

Well said. It's easy to explain the terrifying, torturous version of hell away if you are going along with the Church system and claiming some portion of the saving powers of the Atonement of Jesus Christ. When you opt out of the system, the nastiest version of hell--if it applies to anyone--applies to you.

-JV

[_Aristotle Smith]

True, but I think in the context of ex-Mormons, the more fear-inducing aspects of the Mormon hell doctrine come into play. For your average TBM, hell is not necessarily a frightful thing to contemplate because the assumption is that you are probably at least terrestrial if not celestial material. But when someone leaves the church and has his priesthood stripped, and loses all the "blessings" of baptism, the more severe scriptural descriptions of hell are implicated. I am sure the TBMs think that Mormon apostates like me are going to hell to suffer all the pain that Jesus suffered, and that I may even be destined for "outer darkness." Best case, I am in store for at least 1000 years of misery and darkness before getting a telestial resurrection. Knowing that this is what our TBM friends and family think is the future we can look forward to is what motivates ex-Mos to clarify that we are really not concerned about going to hell. Indeed, the TBM concept of hell and the fate of apostates keeps many non-believers in the church as NOMs, because they do not want their believing family members (often an elderly parent or grandparent) to suffer anxiety over the welfare of their apostate soul.

OK, I see what you are saying. Hell isn't so bad when you are on the inside, but upon leaving hell all of the sudden takes on the most negative aspects that Mormon scriptures have to offer. It never happened to me, and I would never try something like that; that's probably why I never thought of this possibility.

[_sock puppet]

Not unless Ballard has washed your feet in the Holy of Holies.

I know that for 40 years I was afraid I would never measure up, that I was not good enough. I don't think I was alone.

My feet remained unwashed too.

[_Corpsegrinder]

The Mormon concept of hell is about as clear and as stable as the Mormon concept of God.

…as opposed to the eminently logical hell that Christians believe in.

Do Buddhists go to hell? In Taiwan, I once discussed the Christian concept of hell with a devout Buddhist. This peculiar Christian belief struck him as both cruel and nonsensical. He expressed great pity for Christians who labor under the delusion that such a place actually exists.

[_Panopticon]

You remind me of Joseph Smith. Maybe you're not as big an unbeliever as you like to posture.

For the record, I'm an atheist, I just play a Mormon around my in-laws.

[_aussieguy55]

I heard Christian Philosopher, Alvin Plantinga, quoting C S Lewis "Give me heaven for the climate and hell for the company" Plantinga seemed to think that almost everyone will make it, will accept God's gift even post death.

There is a woman scholar in the section for progressive christianity, on Patheos.com who argues that the current churches view of hell is wrong. I need listen again to get the gist of what she was saying.