Release the Mormon Church Financial Statements

[_Hades]

Despite the splendid argumentation of KevinSim et al. there is little to no reason to withhold financial statements within the Mormon faith unless something non faith promoting were occurring.

I think it is a wash, what is not faith promoting about the great and spacious city creek mall adorning the temple with modern day money changing?

When Christ returns he will need money changers to drive out. That's the best reason I've heard yet for City Creek Mall.

[_Juggler Vain]

Themis, in the article you're referring to I quoted Analytics as saying, "all reputible ones do." The context showed that the "ones" were churches and the "do" was disclose their finances. If all churches disclose their finances then clearly a church has to disclose its finances in order to be reputible. So if Analytics thinks that all reputible churches disclose their finances, then doesn't it logically follow that he thinks a church has to disclose its finances in order to be reputible?

No, your conclusion doesn't logically follow. For your conclusion to be valid, Analytics' word "all" would have to be changed to "only." By using the word "all," Analytics left room for the conclusion that s/he was expressing an opinion about currently observable fact, not stating an abstract logical argument or prescriptive rule.

Analytics' statement does not necessarily preclude the possibility that in the future a church might figure out a way to be both reputable and secretive with its finances.

-JV

[_lostindc]

Despite the splendid argumentation of KevinSim et al. there is little to no reason to withhold financial statements within the Mormon faith unless something non faith promoting were occurring.

I think it is a wash, what is not faith promoting about the great and spacious city creek mall adorning the temple with modern day money changing?

When Christ returns he will need money changers to drive out. That's the best reason I've heard yet for City Creek Mall.

The pieces of the puzzle have finally come together.

[_KevinSim]

Drifting, do you believe there is a God?

Did you not read my post that you quoted?

Drifting, I'll take that as a yes.

Do you admit, then, that the best way to find out what the will of God is, in order to find a certain foundation one can base one's theology on, is to earnestly ask God a question, and then wait for God to tell that one "via the Holy Ghost" what God's answer is?

The assertion was made that God would not inspire anyone to use the tithing funds to build City Creek Mall, and it was pretty obvious that I was trying to argue against that assertion. But in my opinion the LDS-approved method of finding out the truth, namely the way of finding out the will of God (so that one can establish a foundation for one's theology) mentioned above, is much more important than any view of City Creek Mall.

So if you will admit that the LDS-approved method for finding out the will of God is the best way to establish such a foundation, then I will withdraw all my arguments in favor of God inspiring the mall.

[_KevinSim]

Well, nothing, I guess, if you appreciate furtiveness in your god.

What does furtiveness have to do with it? I haven't heard anything more than the assertion that other churches reveal their finances and that therefore the LDS Church should reveal its finances. That's nothing more than an argument from peer pressure, which is really no argument at all.

Most other churches pass the collection plate too; does that mean the LDS Church should also pass a collection plate? I personally like the fact that the LDS Church doesn't pass a collection plate, regardless of what other churches do.

By that same argument churches should believe in reincarnation; after all, huge numbers of people in India (and all over Asia for that matter) in faith groups believe in reincarnation; so why doesn't peer pressure make Christianity start believing in reincarnation?

The simple fact is that sometimes it's a good thing for one faith group to act differently from another faith group, regardless of how many other faith groups there are and what they're all doing.

Now, perhaps the argument is more substantial than, other churches do it, and therefore the LDS Church should do it. If so, then please tell us what that more substantial argument is.

[_KevinSim]

Maybe she has been paying attention in Church and reading the scriptures.

What does what she's heard in Church and read in the scriptures have to do with "what God needs and what God doesn't need"?

[_Hades]

Well, nothing, I guess, if you appreciate furtiveness in your god.

What does furtiveness have to do with it? I haven't heard anything more than the assertion that other churches reveal their finances and that therefore the LDS Church should reveal its finances. That's nothing more than an argument from peer pressure, which is really no argument at all.

Most other churches pass the collection plate too; does that mean the LDS Church should also pass a collection plate? I personally like the fact that the LDS Church doesn't pass a collection plate, regardless of what other churches do.

By that same argument churches should believe in reincarnation; after all, huge numbers of people in India (and all over Asia for that matter) in faith groups believe in reincarnation; so why doesn't peer pressure make Christianity start believing in reincarnation?

The simple fact is that sometimes it's a good thing for one faith group to act differently from another faith group, regardless of how many other faith groups there are and what they're all doing.

Now, perhaps the argument is more substantial than, other churches do it, and therefore the LDS Church should do it. If so, then please tell us what that more substantial argument is.

The question is, what the hell do they have to hide? Why would you give money to a church or charity that won't tell you where your money is going?

Peer pressure? How about, most legitimate religions tell you what they are doing with your money.

Collection plate? Most religions don't strong arm 10% of your annual income out of you.

[_Chap]

The CoJCoLDS used to reveal its financial statements. Then it stopped. Why?

[_KevinSim]

The question is, what the hell do they have to hide?

Organizations like the LDS Church, the Roman Catholic Church, or your local Evangelical Church, are pretty complicated objects. There are a lot more to these organizations than just their finances. Why single out a financial report and leave out other things?

I have in the past few weeks been corresponding with an acquaintance of a friend of mine who I think is an Evangelical pastor, who happens to believe both that God has the power to cause souls to cease to exist, and also that God will not use that power to put the (large number of the) unsaved out of their misery, but will rather let them suffer unbearable agony every single moment for the rest of eternity. I have kept asking this pastor why I should believe a good God would do such a thing, to the point that this pastor has apparently chosen not to correspond with me any more.

Now nobody in her/his right mind would assert that this pastor is trying to hide anything, by failing to produce a report to the members of his congregation as to how many people have asked him questions he can't answer. And yet his belief that God will let the unsaved suffer unbearable agony endlessly is incredibly more relevant to the question of whether God has actually inspired his faith than how his congregation has chosen to spend its money. A finite amount of money spent over a finite space of time can only do a finite amount of damage, or, alternately, can only do a finite amount of good. On the other hand, we're talking about a God who is allowing an infinite amount of damage, that He has the power to stop, but won't.

Why would you give money to a church or charity that won't tell you where your money is going?

I'm not a Latter-day Saint because my charitable goals mesh with the charitable policies of the LDS Church; I'm a Latter-day Saint because I firmly believe that God directs the LDS Church. If it's God who's inspiring the financial decisions, then what does it matter what He spends it on? I happen to trust God; he can spend the money on whatever He wants to.

[_Drifting]

The CoJCoLDS used to reveal its financial statements. Then it stopped. Why?

It stopped the year after it became clear that the finances we're being mismanaged to the extent the Church was losing money hand over fist.