Allen Wyatt, Mike Parker & FAIR: A Growing Fear of Dehlin?

[_Droopy]

The thing they hate the most is when one of their own leaves the fold and becomes something of a critic. I know it better than anyone.

Don't go into the kitchen if the heat level there is not to hour liking.

[_mormonstories]

Well, that's understandable. On the other hand, these are the top leaders in the Church, so I can't really see what it is that they are "risking." It's not as if Midgley, DCP & Co. are going to suddenly start writing hit pieces about Elders Holland and Nelson, say.

Regardless, thanks again for helping to clear up some questions.

I'm respecting the GA's because I promised them that I would, and because I want to maintain in their good graces in case I need help again. I'm not doing it out of fear that DP or others will attack them.

[_Runtu]

The thing they hate the most is when one of their own leaves the fold and becomes something of a critic. I know it better than anyone.

Tell me about it.

[_Runtu]

I'm respecting the GA's because I promised them that I would, and because I want to maintain in their good graces in case I need help again. I'm not doing it out of fear that DP or others will attack them.

I will never understand the hostility those guys have toward you. It seems it's not enough to attack those who actually do wish the church harm, but they have to go after those who respect the church and are trying to help people come to grips with it.

It's as if nothing but total conformist orthodoxy is acceptable. That's a losing for them. I suspect the GAs know that, which is why they stuck up for you. Kudos to whoever put a stop to it.

[_MrStakhanovite]

I agree. He was reaching out to them when he had DCP as a guest on his podcast, and yet now it appears that they are stabbing him in the back. And the fact that Prof. P. is basically sneaking around in order to do this is pretty appalling, though it's not surprising. I suppose that some good may yet come of this: the younger "Vanguard" generation of apologists is already waking up to the fact that the Old School Mopologists are bad news, and this will only lead to more alienation, and more realization that the Midgley/Gee/Peterson way of doing things is problematic. But you would think that even the real hard-hat types--the Parkers, Wyatts, and so on--would find this level of cowardice alarming. Part of the reason that these guys got on board with Skinny-L-style apologetics is because they admired the was that Hamblin, Peterson et al. would go boldly "swashbuckling" with the critics. But now their "Kingpin" has been reduced to crouching behind the beanpole-ish Greg Smith? Really? Perhaps Parker, Wyatt, and the others are too stupid or careless to notice this, but I would think that wimpiness on this level would be extremely alarming to them.

DCP’s current behavior reminds me how old cons in the prison always take care of business behind close doors, through henchmen proxies, and out of the sights of prison authorities. What is even more entertaining is that John’s resources within the Church itself seem to be a few magnitudes above DCP’s own, which is probably even more embarrassing to DCP than anything else.

[_mormonstories]

What is even more entertaining is that John’s resources within the Church itself seem to be a few magnitudes above DCP’s own, which is probably even more embarrassing to DCP than anything else.

Now let's not get carried away. :)

[_Doctor Scratch]

John,

By any chance would you be willing to share how it was that you learned about the Greg Smith hit-piece? I would assume that the people at the Maxwell Institute would have tried to keep this quiet.... So how did you find out about it? Perhaps you could send me a private message if you are uncomfortable saying such things on the board?

[_Kishkumen]

Wow, are you suggesting that Prof. P. may have openly defied an Apostle's commandments?

Don't you think this is more indirect confirmation of the existence of apostolic factions? Someone looks out for Dehlin, while Peterson appeals to his benefactor to push forward with the Smith hit-piece. Obviously, Dehlin's patron won this round, but just like McConkie with his book, Mormon Doctrine, Peterson and Smith will find other venues to attack Dehlin. They have added him to the list of feminists, gays, and so-called "intellectuals," who, in their eyes, constitute the greatest threat to corporate Mormonism's "brand."

[_Doctor Scratch]

Wow, are you suggesting that Prof. P. may have openly defied an Apostle's commandments?

Don't you think this is more indirect confirmation of the existence of apostolic factions? Someone looks out for Dehlin, while Peterson appeals to his benefactor to push forward with the Smith hit-piece. Obviously, Dehlin's patron won this round, but just like McConkie with his book, Mormon Doctrine, Peterson and Smith will find other venues to attack Dehlin. They have added him to the list of feminists, gays, and so-called "intellectuals," who, in their eyes, constitute the greatest threat to corporate Mormonism's "brand."

Yes, I do think it is evidence in favor of there being "factions," though I am as confused as ever as to where the various loyalties reside. If I recall correctly, Greg Smith's father-in-law is/was an area Seventy who is/was rather good friends with Elder Packer. This is peculiar, since I had been led to believe that Elder Packer was opposed to Maxwell Institute apologetics--that he was a more hard-line supporter of traditional LDS orthodoxy. (Which, if true, would explain why he would dislike someone like Dehlin.) So maybe the Mopologists are back in the good graces of "The Packer Faction"?

In any case, I'm hoping that Wiki Wonka, Scott Gordon, J Green, and all the others commence with their various silly jokes about how there could never possibly be anything such as an "Oaks Faction" or a "Packer Faction". Come on, guys: get crackin'. I'm sure those jokes are as funny and as richly satsifying as ever!

[_DrW]

John,

Thank you for joining the discussion.

Your presence and confirmation of the goings on at NAMIRS has made this an extremely interesting thread.

DCP is certainly tuned in (or soon will be since his name is mentioned).

Wonder what he makes of all this.