Who is Dehlin's Target?

[_Doctor Scratch]

My claim was that JD was using his membership as a ruse to lead others to believe as he does: that they can pick and choose which doctrines they like and discard the rest. He is doing this by starting a podcast/website, making it very popular, making himself known, and censoring his critics. It's all part of an agenda.

Yes, I realize that's your claim. You don't have any evidence for it, though.

[_Polygamy-Porter]

Kishkumen is right. JD is not misleading anyone, he states exactly what he believes (as Static pointed out too) and this is interesting because I'll bet Static knows better JD's beliefs than he does the beliefs of any of his church leaders. How's that for honesty? This is no fifth column exercise.

Perhaps Static/Simon is upset because he is married to a woman who would not let him do what JD's wife has?

[_Shulem]

I can sure as hell try, Kishkumen. I wish others would do the same.

Hi Simon! Keep up the nasty words. You know I like it when you cuss.

Paul O

[_Yoda]

I can sure as hell try, Kishkumen. I wish others would do the same.

Static, please elaborate on what you mean by this. Are you saying that NOMs don't have a place in the Church?

[Guest]

I can sure as hell try, Kishkumen. I wish others would do the same.

Static, please elaborate on what you mean by this. Are you saying that NOMs don't have a place in the Church?

My interpretations of what "Stanley T." is saying, is that he is trying to do it all in the Gospel and he wants others to do the same.

I think the first part is admirable; the second part is the rub.

I have noted the unfortunate tendency of people who really do try their hardest to live up to the highest ideals of a community to look down on others who aren't and get angry with them for not "measuring up" or not "pulling their weight."

Stanley has essentially identified himself as one of these people. It is good to know. Now we know why John Dehlin is a topic that vexes him so. Whereas John will openly and honestly state,"I only go to meetings once a month most months," Stanley is seething because he can't imagine the gall of a person who would actually do that and, worse yet, admit it openly.

Many of us have been where Stanley is, I'd wager. After all, the Church piles on so many duties, and usually there is only a small contingent in any ward that actually pulls its weight (and then some), so in practical terms Stanley hates this whole "New Order Mormon" idea because, in his eyes, there is a new turn scrubbing the wardhouse toilet with every person who "buys into" what John is saying.

I think that he cannot be blamed for his ire, if this is the way he puts it all together: one less active member, one more toilet for me to scrub.

As he scrubs, he can mutter bitterly, "damn that John Dehlin," and shake his fist in the air in defiance of reality.

John Dehlin's crew, for their part, probably rejoice that not only do they not have to sit through every meeting and assignment the Church lays on them any more, they also don't have to listen to Stanley cursing John Dehlin as he scrubs the toilet the next stall over.

[_Yoda]

Thanks for your take on this, Kish. I guess I just don't quite see things that way.(The way Stanley might see things)

All practicing NOMs are different, I suppose. I attend Church every Sunday, and play the piano for Primary. From what the Primary Presidency, and other Ward members have told me, I am appreciated in my calling, and am serving the ward in a very positive way. Now, I have openly turned down other callings which I felt were too taxing on my health or my family. But I have found a way to serve, nonetheless. If more NOMs do this kind of thing, is it still viewed as people not pulling their fair weight?

[_static]

Static, please elaborate on what you mean by this. Are you saying that NOMs don't have a place in the Church?

Not at all. Everyone who believes in the teachings and mission of Jesus Christ, and who believes that Joseph Smith experienced what he said he experienced has a place in the church.

I reject separating labels like "NOM," "chapel Mormon," "Internet Mormon," etc. I don't think they're useful, and I think they serve more to divide people than to unite them.

[_Yoda]

Static, please elaborate on what you mean by this. Are you saying that NOMs don't have a place in the Church?

Not at all. Everyone who believes in the teachings and mission of Jesus Christ, and who believes that Joseph Smith experienced what he said he experienced has a place in the church.

I reject separating labels like "NOM," "chapel Mormon," "Internet Mormon," etc. I don't think they're useful, and I think they serve more to divide people than to unite them.

So what is your stance on those who have been helped by Dehlin? I can only speak for myself. I have not actually read Dehlin for a long time. He is a friend on Facebook, and I occasionally follow his comments there. However, I have not listened to his podcast in quite some time. (Sorry to say for Dehlin, that I actually prefer John Larsen's podcast...although I don't really get a huge opportunity to listen to that one, either. )

My point is, when I went through my faith struggle, I was very touched by Dehlin's "middle way" presentation, and how it was OK to continue in my Church membership, even if I had some serious questions and disagreements about gospel tenets such as polygamy.

You stated earlier that there was no place for those of us who have chosen to remain active, and yet "pick and choose" which tenets work for us. It seemed to me that you were saying that those of us who do this need to be out of the Church rather than in. That is the main bone of contention I have with Bob Crockett, who vocalizes the same sentiment.

Now, it seems that you are saying something slightly different, which is why I would like some clarification. For me, anyway, I believe that as long as we can come together in Christ, and live/believe the core gospel principles (i.e., the Sermon on the Mount, the Ten Commandments, the Articles of Faith), that we will, in the Lord's due time, receive answers to those things which do not make sense.

Dehlin's message that it was OK for me to continue my method of worship, even though I disagreed with, what I considered, and frankly, still consider, tenets of men, gave me a tremendous sense of peace. I also believe that it has actually helped me become a more productive member of the Church, overall.

I have spoken to others, and I am not the only person who has taken from Dehlin this same message. I understand that there are others who have also chosen to leave the Church after hearing Dehlin's message, but have managed to do so in a way that is not combative to their LDS family members. Again, how is this a bad thing?

I just have a hard time seeing Dehlin as a "wolf in sheep's clothing" based on my own personal experience.

I would appreciate your thoughts, Static.

[_stemelbow]

Dehlin has suggested his target is folks like DCP who he thinks is overly mean. He stated a few times, but I'm too lazy to look them all up. He seems to be trying to paint DCP and others as irrelevant, incapable people. He ain't after me, luckily. With all his connections and power I'd be powerless.

This whole affair has been weird, Dehlin seemed to exult in that he may have made some dent. DCP and co seem to be shrugging their shoulders in a sense. It happened, in their view, but its not like its some precedent to change anything.

[_Kishkumen]

Dehlin has suggested his target is folks like DCP who he thinks is overly mean. He stated a few times, but I'm too lazy to look them all up.

I'm too exacting to take you seriously. I guess that makes us even.

He seems to be trying to paint DCP and others as irrelevant, incapable people.

CFR.

He ain't after me, luckily. With all his connections and power I'd be powerless.

Do you write nasty reviews aimed at fellow LDS folk published through BYU?

This whole affair has been weird, Dehlin seemed to exult in that he may have made some dent. DCP and co seem to be shrugging their shoulders in a sense. It happened, in their view, but its not like its some precedent to change anything.

What is weird is your goofy, sloppy, and lackluster attempts to slime John Dehlin.