Simon on Mormon Stories

[_Stormy Waters]

Great podcast.

[_Drifting]

My understanding of the apologetic argument is that it would be impossible to detect the genes of 30 people who entered a huge population of American Indians. I realize Simon conceded this point at one time, but more and more studies have come out since then so I'm wondering if that is still true.

Is there any textual evidence in The Book of Mormon for them integrating with a larger population? I can't think of any.

In actual fact the textual evidence in the Book of Mormon states that there weren't any indiginous populations at all, the land 'being kept from all other nations' springs to mind...

[_Tobin]

No one in the Church talkes the apologists seriously, nor should they. Mormonism is about speaking with God and doing what God tells you to do. I know those outside the Church have their issues with Deutero-Isaiah, genetics markers, a distinct lack of horses in Mesoamerica and apologists engage them on those grounds. But, the apologists are really mistaken to do so. If they were truly interested in the answers, they would speak with God about it and find out the truth.

Good point. I talked with God about it and I feel strongly that it is all BS. God definitely told me the truth.

Yes, heartburn has always beeen a great way to determine truth. Let me know when you actually see and speak with God which is the only basis for really finding out the truth.

[_Chap]

Good point. I talked with God about it and I feel strongly that it is all BS. God definitely told me the truth.

Yes, heartburn has always beeen a great way to determine truth. Let me know when you actually see and speak with God which is the only basis for really finding out the truth.

Like this guy?

A man who beheaded a fellow bus passenger in Canada in 2008 has spoken out for the first time, saying he believed he was killing an alien.

In an interview with a schizophrenia society, Vince Weiguang Li said he had heard what he believed was "the voice of God".

Mr Li was found not guilty of murdering Tim McLean, 22, after being diagnosed with paranoid schizophrenia.

He has since been treated at a mental health centre near Winnipeg, Manitoba.

In the interview given to Chris Summerville, head of the Schizophrenia Society of Canada, Chinese-born Mr Li said he had bought the knife used in the attack for protection "from the aliens".

He said he had been unaware at the time that he suffered from schizophrenia.

The attack took place in front of horrified passengers as the inter-city Greyhound bus travelled past Portage la Prairie, about 70km (40 miles) west of Winnipeg.

The driver, alerted by Mr McLean's screams, stopped the bus and fled with the passengers as Mr Li continued his attack.

"The voice told me that I was the third story of the Bible, that I was like the second coming of Jesus [and that] I was to save people from a space alien attack," he said, according to a transcript of the interview published by Canadian media.

See? Once you get to talk with God, you can be sure that what he tells you to do is right!

Spread this wonderful message, everyone! The greater the number of people who have grasped the great truth that talking to God is the best guide in life, the safer and happier we shall all be! Keep up the good work, Tobin!

[_Tobin]

...

Ahh, the old "seeing God must be a mental disease" line. And clearly the Bible was written by people suffering from mental disorders. You really should get some pom-poms Chap or a mascot suit. Your incessant cheerleading for the anti-God line is very entertaining.

[_Chap]

<story about man who cut off someone's head because he heard God telling him to do it>

See? Once you get to talk with God, you can be sure that what he tells you to do is right!

Spread this wonderful message, everyone! The greater the number of people who have grasped the great truth that talking to God is the best guide in life, the safer and happier we shall all be! Keep up the good work, Tobin!

Ahh, the old "seeing God must be a mental disease" line. And clearly the Bible was written by people suffering from mental disorders. You really should get some pom-poms Chap or a mascot suit. Your incessant cheerleading for the anti-God line is very entertaining.

Ah, the old "Ah the old XY" tactic for responding to a difficult point, followed by silly abuse.

Reading what you have written, I can't think how anyone can doubt that it is a good idea to encourage people to try to get God to talk to them if they want to know what to do.

Clearly, you have dealt in a quite devastating way with the trivial objection that there is absolutely no way of telling whether the voice in your head is:

(a) God
(b) Your own imagination and wish-fulfillment at work
(c) A delusion

[_Tobin]

...

Do those pom-poms come in pink? And you are under the misconception that God appearing to us only occurs in our heads. I made no such assertion. It also presumes that the appearance and interaction with God completely debilitates us and makes us incapable of reason and/or our senses. Again, nothing could be further from the truth.

[_Chap]

Clearly, you have dealt in a quite devastating way with the trivial objection that there is absolutely no way of telling whether the voice in your head is:

(a) God
(b) Your own imagination and wish-fulfillment at work
(c) A delusion

Do those pom-poms come in pink? And you are under the misconception that God appearing to us only occurs in our heads. I made no such assertion. It also presumes that the appearance and interaction with God completely debilitates us and makes us incapable of reason and/or our senses. Again, nothing could be further from the truth.

I am reeling under this subtle philosophical and theological counter-attack. So now we learn:

1. When God talks to Tobin, Tobin doesn't just hear a voice. God 'appears to him'.

2. The risk that Tobin will be misled into thinking it is God appearing to him when what is happening is that he is imagining it, being deluded, or maybe seeing something else that is not 'God' at all is obviated by the fact that Tobin is able to deploy his "reason and/or ... senses".

I shan't ask Tobin for details of how God appears ... no doubt he will tell us if he wants to. But I do wonder how Tobin is sure that he has some reliable way of telling what is really God and what is not. One thing is ruled out - it can't come from God having told him, since there would be an obvious circularity, and Tobin would never commit such an error.

So how does he know that his IGD (Identification God or Delusion) system is reliable? I think I have asked that before, but I cannot recall any coherent answer being given.

[_Tobin]

I am reeling under this subtle philosophical and theological counter-attack. So now we learn:

1. When God talks to Tobin, Tobin doesn't just hear a voice. God 'appears to him'.

2. The risk that Tobin will be misled into thinking it is God appearing to him when what is happening is that he is imagining it, being deluded, or maybe seeing something else that is not 'God' at all is obviated by the fact that Tobin is able to deploy his "reason and/or ... senses".

I shan't ask Tobin for details of how God appears ... no doubt he will tell us if he wants to. But I do wonder how Tobin is sure that he has some reliable way of telling what is really God and what is not. One thing is ruled out - it can't come from God having told him, since there would be an obvious circularity, and Tobin would never commit such an error.

So how does he know that his IGD (Identification God or Delusion) system is reliable? I think I have asked that before, but I cannot recall any coherent answer being given.

The only thing you are reeling under is your own false assertions and conclusions. For whatever reason, you don't believe in the scriptures or in the God of the Bible. You openly mock them and the fact that the prophets saw and spoke with God. You also mock anyone that really believes in the scriptures, states there is a God, and that others can really experience God. You are anti-God in every sense of the word and in open conflict with God and will have to account for who and what you are one day.

[_Chap]

I am reeling under this subtle philosophical and theological counter-attack. So now we learn:

1. When God talks to Tobin, Tobin doesn't just hear a voice. God 'appears to him'.

2. The risk that Tobin will be misled into thinking it is God appearing to him when what is happening is that he is imagining it, being deluded, or maybe seeing something else that is not 'God' at all is obviated by the fact that Tobin is able to deploy his "reason and/or ... senses".

I shan't ask Tobin for details of how God appears ... no doubt he will tell us if he wants to. But I do wonder how Tobin is sure that he has some reliable way of telling what is really God and what is not. One thing is ruled out - it can't come from God having told him, since there would be an obvious circularity, and Tobin would never commit such an error.

So how does he know that his IGD (Identification God or Delusion) system is reliable? I think I have asked that before, but I cannot recall any coherent answer being given.

The only thing you are reeling under is your own false assertions and conclusions. For whatever reason, you don't believe in the scriptures or in the God of the Bible. You openly mock them and the fact that the prophets saw and spoke with God. You also mock anyone that really believes in the scriptures, states there is a God, and that others can really experience God. You are anti-God in every sense of the word and in open conflict with God and will have to account for who and what you are one day.

Dear me!

And I thought that I just giving Tobin a chance to explain his point of view more clearly. At least the only threat I have to worry about is that God will get me in the end. He evidently hasn't laid any commands on Tobin to take me out personally ... yet.