I've wanted to ask Tobin this question myself for some time. But I would rephrase slightly: how did you know it was capital-G Old Testament GOD God, Yahweh, the "God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob"--as opposed to a lesser lower-case-g god, powerful worldly protector, or other spiritual entity?
Tobin wrote:It's an interesting day and age when people state the Devil is more powerful than God don't you think? I wonder where they got that idea from?
It has been my observation that those that follow the Devil and believe his lies, preach and teach against speaking with and seeking God. That always gives them away. They can't help themselves.
Tobin really isn't going to answer this kind of question, it appears. Nor this one either:
Drifting wrote:Have you talked to God face to face? What did He look like? What did He ask you to do? How did you know it was God and not the Devil?
Early Hebrews who made similar claims were a bit bolder:
Exodus 24:
9 Then went up Moses, and Aaron, Nadab, and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel:
10 And they saw the God of Israel: and there was under his feet as it were a paved work of a sapphire stone, and as it were the body of heaven in his clearness.
11 And upon the nobles of the children of Israel he laid not his hand: also they saw God, and did eat and drink.
Did God offer refreshments to Tobin when they met? What floor-coverings did he favor?
Zadok: I did not have a faith crisis. I discovered that the Church was having a truth crisis. Maksutov: That's the problem with this supernatural stuff, it doesn't really solve anything. It's a placeholder for ignorance.
Buffalo wrote:Here's another example of you twisting people's arguments around into straw man versions of themselves. No one said the Devil was more powerful than God, but you're happy to pretend they did.
No joke.
Let me say this again and try to make my question more clear in case it was insufficiently clear.
1. I accept the existence of (a) God, as well as (b) gods and (c) positive and negative spirits or "demons"; the word comes from the Greek daimon which did not have either positive or negative connotations.
2. I accept that you had an audio-visual encounter with some incorporeal entity.
3. What I want to know is:
(a) why you are certain that this particular incorporeal entity that appeared to you is God, as opposed to a lesser god (or a greater god like, say, Shiva) or a "demon."
(b) how you can tell the difference between spirits, gods, and God; what is the "reliable warrant" or "means of reliable knowledge" (Pramāṇa, look it up) you are using to determine that what you saw was God as opposed to a god. NB "the being told me it was God" doesn't count as a reliable warrant, since a lesser god or negative spirit could easily produce audio-visual manifestations but also be lying.
You are under the impression there maybe other gods, demons or a pantheon within the universe. I share no such illusions. My experience may even be confirmation of your beliefs. That is up to you to decide. I haven't offered my experiences as proof there is a God to you. It is only proof to me there is a God based on my background and beliefs. And based upon that experience, I express my belief others should experience similar things and decide for themselves what that demonstrates or proves.
"You lack vision, but I see a place where people get on and off the freeway. On and off, off and on all day, all night.... Tire salons, automobile dealerships and wonderful, wonderful billboards reaching as far as the eye can see. My God, it'll be beautiful." -- Judge Doom
Tobin wrote:It's an interesting day and age when people state the Devil is more powerful than God don't you think? I wonder where they got that idea from?
Well, he is winning rather comprehensively don't you think? God needs a new game plan.
“We look to not only the spiritual but also the temporal, and we believe that a person who is impoverished temporally cannot blossom spiritually.” Keith McMullin - Counsellor in Presiding Bishopric
"One, two, three...let's go shopping!" Thomas S Monson - Prophet, Seer, Revelator
Let me say this again and try to make my question more clear in case it was insufficiently clear.
1. I accept the existence of (a) God, as well as (b) gods and (c) positive and negative spirits or "demons"; the word comes from the Greek daimon which did not have either positive or negative connotations.
2. I accept that you had an audio-visual encounter with some incorporeal entity.
3. What I want to know is:
(a) why you are certain that this particular incorporeal entity that appeared to you is God, as opposed to a lesser god (or a greater god like, say, Shiva) or a "demon."
(b) how you can tell the difference between spirits, gods, and God; what is the "reliable warrant" or "means of reliable knowledge" (Pramāṇa, look it up) you are using to determine that what you saw was God as opposed to a god. NB "the being told me it was God" doesn't count as a reliable warrant, since a lesser god or negative spirit could easily produce audio-visual manifestations but also be lying.
You are under the impression there maybe other gods, demons or a pantheon within the universe. I share no such illusions. My experience may even be confirmation of your beliefs. That is up to you to decide. I haven't offered my experiences as proof there is a God to you. It is only proof to me there is a God based on my background and beliefs. And based upon that experience, I express my belief others should experience similar things and decide for themselves what that demonstrates or proves.
Yes but what did God look and sound like and how did you know it was God?
“We look to not only the spiritual but also the temporal, and we believe that a person who is impoverished temporally cannot blossom spiritually.” Keith McMullin - Counsellor in Presiding Bishopric
"One, two, three...let's go shopping!" Thomas S Monson - Prophet, Seer, Revelator
Tobin wrote:You are under the impression there maybe other gods, demons or a pantheon within the universe. I share no such illusions. My experience may even be confirmation of your beliefs. That is up to you to decide. I haven't offered my experiences as proof there is a God to you. It is only proof to me there is a God based on my background and beliefs. And based upon that experience, I express my belief others should experience similar things and decide for themselves what that demonstrates or proves.
And yet, you can't articulate how you were able to determine that what you saw was god.
Parley P. Pratt wrote:We must lie to support brother Joseph, it is our duty to do so.
Did God offer refreshments to Tobin when they met? What floor-coverings did he favor?
I would love to know the answers.
A couple of other questions: Did he/she wear any earrings? Did he/she have any tats?
Inquiring minds want to know. Please indulge us, Tobin. Pretty please. With sugar on top!
The floor-coverings issue is particularly important, since I suspect the sapphire glass stuff he used to have down in Moses' day must have worn out by now.
Zadok: I did not have a faith crisis. I discovered that the Church was having a truth crisis. Maksutov: That's the problem with this supernatural stuff, it doesn't really solve anything. It's a placeholder for ignorance.
Chap wrote:The floor-coverings issue is particularly important, since I suspect the sapphire glass stuff he used to have down in Moses' day must have worn out by now.
Would He not like that new floor covering developed by one of His newest angels - the ICloud?
“We look to not only the spiritual but also the temporal, and we believe that a person who is impoverished temporally cannot blossom spiritually.” Keith McMullin - Counsellor in Presiding Bishopric
"One, two, three...let's go shopping!" Thomas S Monson - Prophet, Seer, Revelator
