Themis wrote:Many will maintain some relationship with the church, but usually doesn't involve paying tithes. I think The church is in real trouble because it is losing so many good members that it wasn't losing in the past. I don't think the church is going to feel the full effects of this for decades. It's also losing it's best and brightest.
I wonder when this is going to catch up to the church. I agree that people don't necessarily resign, but one of the first things people stop doing is paying tithing. People tend to speak with their pocketbook. Meanwhile, the church keeps adding expenses. The church is still behaving like they have a never ending supply of cash, so it must not be hurting them yet, but this pattern can't continue forever.
"We have taken up arms in defense of our liberty, our property, our wives, and our children; we are determined to preserve them, or die." - Captain Moroni - 'Address to the Inhabitants of Canada' 1775
brade wrote:That's a nice bit of PR hand waving he's done. A few weeks ago I had a meeting with a very well known LDS scholar who's been in contact with church leadership recently and was told, and I quote, "The church is hemorrhaging members". And I didn't understand by that that they meant hordes of people were filing paperwork to get their name off the list.
In what context was the conversation between church leadership (I'm not sure who this would include?) and the LDS scholar?
Did you understand that to mean that people are just walking away?
I'm trying to see how this has changed. We know the number of converts who stick around is miniscule... are we talking members who have been active for years and are now walking away? Is there a certain age group that is walking more than others? Is this happening worldwide, or is it limited to the USA?
(Nevo, Jan 23) And the Melchizedek Priesthood may not have been restored until the summer of 1830, several months after the organization of the Church.
brade wrote:That's a nice bit of PR hand waving he's done. A few weeks ago I had a meeting with a very well known LDS scholar who's been in contact with church leadership recently and was told, and I quote, "The church is hemorrhaging members". And I didn't understand by that that they meant hordes of people were filing paperwork to get their name off the list.
In what context was the conversation between church leadership (I'm not sure who this would include?) and the LDS scholar?
If I remember correctly, it was in the context of a meeting about how to better present the church to the public.
We know the number of converts who stick around is miniscule... are we talking members who have been active for years and are now walking away?
harmony wrote: I'm trying to see how this has changed. We know the number of converts who stick around is miniscule... are we talking members who have been active for years and are now walking away? Is there a certain age group that is walking more than others? Is this happening worldwide, or is it limited to the USA?
My observation has been most who grow up in the church stay in the church. This does not mean they don't go through a period of being a rebel, but they usually go back sometime in their life. I think this is usual, and why people don't change religions that much. I think now though we are seeing many members who have grown up in the church leaving over historical issues. I would say it is happening in at least English counties. Europe seems to be a waste land these days for church growth. I doubt the developing world knows as much or has the same foundation of BIC as in the US.
Active members leaving in droves means a reduction in tithing, which is probably not a good idea right now, what with the cost of the mall and all.
It would be nice to hear something official, but the 2nd to the last leader standing will not tell the last member standing that all the rest of us are gone, so I won't hold my breath.
(Nevo, Jan 23) And the Melchizedek Priesthood may not have been restored until the summer of 1830, several months after the organization of the Church.
Themis wrote:My observation has been most who grow up in the church stay in the church. This does not mean they don't go through a period of being a rebel, but they usually go back sometime in their life. I think this is usual, and why people don't change religions that much. I think now though we are seeing many members who have grown up in the church leaving over historical issues.
Do you think the Brethren are willing to change, in order to maintain membership levels? Or will the word out of SLC continue to be out of touch with the present reality?
(Nevo, Jan 23) And the Melchizedek Priesthood may not have been restored until the summer of 1830, several months after the organization of the Church.
They need to conduct head counts at every Sacrament Meeting throughout the organization and publish them.
Do this every Sunday for one month. Have the Branch Prez/Bishop and the Executive Secretary tally and notarize the totals, announce the totals in Sacrament Meeting the following month then submit them to headquarters. With all of the global attendance records tallied, publish them in an Official LDS Publication.
Of course Mormonism is a lie, designed to take advantage of unsuspecting people.
harmony wrote:Do you think the Brethren are willing to change, in order to maintain membership levels? Or will the word out of Salt Lake City continue to be out of touch with the present reality?
They would need the problem to get worse, which it may very well. I think the full effect of what is going on may not be fully felt for years or decades. They are out of touch with the reality that the church is not true. As such they don't really understand the problem.
mms wrote:I know Kishkumen started a thread on this article, but I thought this deserved a highlight.
“Those leaving the church are a fraction of 1 percent each year and it is a trend that is decreasing rather than increasing,” said Michael Purdy, a church spokesman.
However, said another spokesman, Michael Otterson,“anti-church groups . . . have become more aggressive and outspoken.” And the church has acknowledged on other occasions that it has had difficulty retaining young Mormons, in particular, and has generally lagged in dealing with doubt — perhaps the largest challenge not only to Mormonism, but also to modern organized religion as a whole.
I wonder if he's being technical here and referring only to those who remove their name from the records of the church, which I'm sure is a tiny fraction. Of course, I've left the church, for all practical purposes, but my name is still on the list. Am I counted among "those leaving the church", Michael Purdy?
That is the only way this claim can be consistent with the numbers. If on the other hand we look at the Pew data on the number of people who identify themselves as LDS/Mormon when asked if they have a religious affiliation, that has remained constant as a fraction of US population for the past decade. But LDS have family sizes that are notoriously above the US average, and generally marry young and start reproducing rapidly. There is also a major missionary effort. If large numbers of people were not 'resigning in their heads' to the point that they don't want to say they are Mormon any more, the church's share of declared allegiance amongst the US population should be growing significantly.
But it definitely is not. Purdy is talking only formal resignations, which in no way reflect the full rate of effective member loss to the church. I am sure the church leaders see the real picture, and are deeply worried about it.
Zadok: I did not have a faith crisis. I discovered that the Church was having a truth crisis. Maksutov: That's the problem with this supernatural stuff, it doesn't really solve anything. It's a placeholder for ignorance.
The statement is still false because he didn't qualify it by saying "those who remove their names." Thousands leave the Church every year, many leave as quickly as they joined. And the Church keeps using their names to bolster their bogus membership claims.
More than half of the global Church is inactive. I suspect most of those folks do not even consider themselves LDS anymore.