liz3564 wrote:It says in the Bible that the Holy Ghost overshadowed Mary. The Holy Ghost is spirit. The process, I believe, would be considered an artificial insemination. It is known as a miracle birth because Mary never "knew" a man. It was an immaculate conception.
I don't think that means what you think it means.
Wikipedia wrote:The Immaculate Conception is a dogma of the Catholic Church maintaining that the Blessed Virgin Mary was kept free of original sin from her moment of conception and was filled with the sanctifying grace normally conferred during baptism.... The Immaculate Conception should not be confused with the Virginity of Mary or the Virgin birth of Jesus; it refers to the conception of Mary by her mother, Saint Anne.
Interesting. Thanks for sharing. I am so ignorant when it comes to other Christian religions. I would welcome other concepts being shared.
liz3564 wrote: Of course, the traditional trinity belief lends even more credence to the virgin birth. If you believe in the trinity, then you believe that Christ is literally the father, and literally the Holy Ghost. In other words, Christ sent himself down to the earth. He became the baby in Mary's womb.
It also lends a different "flavor" to the sacrifice on the cross.
liz3564 wrote: Of course, the traditional trinity belief lends even more credence to the virgin birth. If you believe in the trinity, then you believe that Christ is literally the father, and literally the Holy Ghost. In other words, Christ sent himself down to the earth. He became the baby in Mary's womb.
It also lends a different "flavor" to the sacrifice on the cross.
You're right. On another thread where it is talking about how barbaric the biblical God is for sacrificing his Son, this is definitely a different spin. He is not sacrificing his son; he is sacrificing himself.
liz3564 wrote:It says in the Bible that the Holy Ghost overshadowed Mary. The Holy Ghost is spirit. The process, I believe, would be considered an artificial insemination. It is known as a miracle birth because Mary never "knew" a man. It was an immaculate conception.
I don't think that means what you think it means.
Wikipedia wrote:The Immaculate Conception is a dogma of the Catholic Church maintaining that the Blessed Virgin Mary was kept free of original sin from her moment of conception and was filled with the sanctifying grace normally conferred during baptism.... The Immaculate Conception should not be confused with the Virginity of Mary or the Virgin birth of Jesus; it refers to the conception of Mary by her mother, Saint Anne.
Yup. Virgin Birth ≠ Immaculate Conception
The first is about how Jesus was born, and the second is about Mary, whose mother conceived her in the usual way, but the hereditary taint of sin from Adam and Eve ('original sin') was miraculously not transmitted to her.
The Virgin Birth is a very ancient doctrine, almost universally accepted by Christians from the earliest times when there is systematic evidence, while the Immaculate Conception was not actually defined as a dogma by the Pope until 1854, despite having been around as a common belief for centuries before.
Zadok: I did not have a faith crisis. I discovered that the Church was having a truth crisis. Maksutov: That's the problem with this supernatural stuff, it doesn't really solve anything. It's a placeholder for ignorance.
I'd be interested in Ms. Jack sharing a bit. She probably has me on Ignore, but it'd be a good opportunity for us to understand the mind of an Other.
- VRDRC
In the face of madness, rationality has no power - Xiao Wang, US historiographer, 2287 AD.
Every record...falsified, every book rewritten...every statue...has been renamed or torn down, every date...altered...the process is continuing...minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Ideology is always right.
Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:I'd actually be interested in hearing a faithful Christian's (I don't consider Mormons to be Christians in the conventional sense) take on this.
- VRDRC
The idea of God having intercourse with one of His creations (us) is repulsive to Christians. The idea of artificial insemination is out as well, as the Father is Spirit.
The conception of Jesus is a miracle, i.e., a supernatural event that cannot be explained using natural laws.
Being a Christian is not the result of an ethical choice or a lofty idea, but the encounter with an event, a person, which gives life a new horizon and a decisive direction -Pope Benedict XVI
liz3564 wrote: Of course, the traditional trinity belief lends even more credence to the virgin birth. If you believe in the trinity, then you believe that Christ is literally the father, and literally the Holy Ghost.
The Christian doctrine of the Trinity is:
The Father is God. The Son is God. The Holy Spirit is God. God is the Father. God is the Son. God is the Holy Spirit. The Father is not the Son or the Holy Spirit. The Son is not the Father or the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is not the Father or the Son.
In other words, Christ sent himself down to the earth. He became the baby in Mary's womb.
The Father sent the Son.
A central doctrine of Christianity is the Incarnation. Which is: God became Man; God lowered Himself and dwelt among us.
As I see it, Mormonism has it backwards, looking through the wrong end of the telescope if you will.
Being a Christian is not the result of an ethical choice or a lofty idea, but the encounter with an event, a person, which gives life a new horizon and a decisive direction -Pope Benedict XVI
So, there are multiple gods in Christian ideology? I don't understand how that works on a cosmic scale. Can you explain that to me?
- VRDRC
In the face of madness, rationality has no power - Xiao Wang, US historiographer, 2287 AD.
Every record...falsified, every book rewritten...every statue...has been renamed or torn down, every date...altered...the process is continuing...minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Ideology is always right.
Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:So, there are multiple gods in Christian ideology? I don't understand how that works on a cosmic scale. Can you explain that to me?
- VRDRC
One God. There is nothing I posted in the plural (Gods).
When teaching/learning of the Trinity, it always begins with One God, as God has revealed Himself as One. There is but One God, and no other.
Being a Christian is not the result of an ethical choice or a lofty idea, but the encounter with an event, a person, which gives life a new horizon and a decisive direction -Pope Benedict XVI
Maybe Mary overpowered Heavenly Father with her charms for reasons we don't fully understand. Maybe she bound him down and made passionate love to him on the night of her betrothal to Joseph. Admit it. We don't know all the details.
Zee.
Oh for shame, how the mortals put the blame on us gods, for they say evils come from us, but it is they, rather, who by their own recklessness win sorrow beyond what is given... Zeus (1178 BC)
