madeleine wrote:edit to add: St. Basil held an opinion, that has never been doctrine.
lulu wrote:I was wondering if you would make the bcspace move
MCB wrote:Funny comparison, but not close enough.
Basil never claimed to be a prophet, and no-one ever called him a prophet.
Prophet smophet. That's not the point.
A. madeleine has her nose buried in the RCIA manual.
A. bcspace has his nose in the LDS Institute manual.
B. If something madeleine finds in the RCIA manual is demonstrably wrong, she responds to the evidence against her with "that was never doctrine." Rather than taking her nose out of the RCIA manual.
B. If something bcspace finds in the Institute manual is demonstrably wrong, he responds to the evidence against him with "that was never doctrine." Rather than taking his nose out of the Institute manual.
They'd both make great Southern Baptists if the need arose.
That's the point.
"And the human knew the source of life, the woman of him, and she conceived and bore Cain, and said, 'I have procreated a man with Yahweh.'" Gen. 4:1, interior quote translated by D. Bokovoy.
If something madeleine finds in the RCIA manual is demonstrably wrong, she responds to the evidence against her with "that was never doctrine." Rather than taking her nose out of the RCIA manual.
I don't know if she is working from that or not. How, she is one of my readers for the book I am working on, and she is researching in areas where I might do some more elaboration.
So I see it as being rather circular.
And you are certainly being a big help, too.
Huckelberry said: I see the order and harmony to be the very image of God which smiles upon us each morning as we awake.
If something madeleine finds in the RCIA manual is demonstrably wrong, she responds to the evidence against her with "that was never doctrine." Rather than taking her nose out of the RCIA manual.
I don't know if she is working from that or not. How, she is one of my readers for the book I am working on, and she is researching in areas where I might do some more elaboration.
So I see it as being rather circular.
And you are certainly being a big help, too.
Be sure and put me in your acknowledgements . . . along with my avatar
"And the human knew the source of life, the woman of him, and she conceived and bore Cain, and said, 'I have procreated a man with Yahweh.'" Gen. 4:1, interior quote translated by D. Bokovoy.
As for your avatar and its meaning, I also deal with that. There is a lot of pain among LDS gays. Many are so emotionally scarred that celibacy is attractive.
As for RCIA textbooks, it is such a new process, that there is very little out there. Each parish develops their own curriculum based on perceived needs. My book is intended as an RCIA textbook, although others might use it for other purposes.
Huckelberry said: I see the order and harmony to be the very image of God which smiles upon us each morning as we awake.
lulu, I have to agree with MCB: I don't think it's a fair comparison. The reason bcspace feels able to weasel his way in and out and through LDS manuals is that LDS does not have and has never had a teaching authority as such. On the contrary, the Magisterium provides a level of authority for what is orthodox Catholic doctrine that simply does not exist in Mormonism. So it's really apples to oranges.
That said, I don't know if I agree with madeleine's baptism criterion. Theologically she is on solid ground, but I'm pretty sure that e.g. Baptist or Methodist baptisms are not sacramentally valid in Roman Catholicism; certainly they are not sacramentally valid in Eastern Orthodoxy.
The more salient point she makes, that you have yet to address, is the fact that Mormons worship a completely different God than Christians (or, for that matter, Jews and Muslims) worship. The "Abrahamic" faiths all worship the One True God who created the heavens and the earth. Mormons worship a god that they believe created this particular planet/world system, but they teach that this god is not the One True God and that we are only genetically (as opposed to ontologically or metaphysically) dependent upon this god. In other words, their theology is utterly and completely incompatible with the "Abrahamic" model.
MCB, what is your book about and when (approximately) is it due? My interest has been piqued!
Samantabhadra wrote:lulu, I have to agree with MCB: I don't think it's a fair comparison. The reason bcspace feels able to weasel his way in and out and through LDS manuals is that LDS does not have and has never had a teaching authority as such. On the contrary, the Magisterium provides a level of authority for what is orthodox Catholic doctrine that simply does not exist in Mormonism. So it's really apples to oranges.
That said, I don't know if I agree with madeleine's baptism criterion. Theologically she is on solid ground, but I'm pretty sure that e.g. Baptist or Methodist baptisms are not sacramentally valid in Roman Catholicism; certainly they are not sacramentally valid in Eastern Orthodoxy.
The more salient point she makes, that you have yet to address, is the fact that Mormons worship a completely different God than Christians (or, for that matter, Jews and Muslims) worship. The "Abrahamic" faiths all worship the One True God who created the heavens and the earth. Mormons worship a god that they believe created this particular planet/world system, but they teach that this god is not the One True God and that we are only genetically (as opposed to ontologically or metaphysically) dependent upon this god. In other words, their theology is utterly and completely incompatible with the "Abrahamic" model.
MCB, what is your book about and when (approximately) is it due? My interest has been piqued!
I really can't improve on your own wise words
Samantabhadra wrote:they can also be understood as heretics, in the sense that they consider themselves Christian, but choose to turn away from Christian orthodoxy.
"And the human knew the source of life, the woman of him, and she conceived and bore Cain, and said, 'I have procreated a man with Yahweh.'" Gen. 4:1, interior quote translated by D. Bokovoy.
The RCC church accepts all baptisms except Oneness Pentecostal, Mormon, and a few other strange sects. The Trinity is the difference. Oneness baptisms are in the name of Jesus only.
Here is another post by me on another board:
When I started researching and writing, I experienced the same kind of episodic resurgences which would last for weeks. The thought of actually publishing was frightening, because I feared backlash from mobots. I kept working on it, and became more comfortable. The move to a minimally Mormon area did wonders. I would think that what is behind it is paranoia, you know, Danites, and all that. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flooding_%28psychology%29 Luckily, I just kept working on it, and gradually the symptoms faded. I just backed off to 25 mg of Seroquel a day.
I also have a good spiritual and psychological support structure from the largest organized church in the world.
Text:373 pages, Selected readings: 459 pages. Less than half as dry as Mike Quinn's works. I dare to be me.
Title now is "A Re-evaluation of Mormonism"
Huckelberry said: I see the order and harmony to be the very image of God which smiles upon us each morning as we awake.
Samantabhadra wrote:Is considering yourself Christian sufficient to make you Christian? You never answered my earlier question about my Hindu friend.
Yes I did, in classical Christian thought, she is either a heretic or a heathen.
"And the human knew the source of life, the woman of him, and she conceived and bore Cain, and said, 'I have procreated a man with Yahweh.'" Gen. 4:1, interior quote translated by D. Bokovoy.
No. But not being a Christian is not a condemnatory thing. That is one reason why I am looking at calling Mormonism gnostic, opposed to mystic, because to them, non-Christian is a condemnatory label. There are many people who are not Christians who lead good, ethical lives. Dali Lama. They are deeply entwined, especially him, in their own cultural heritage. They mis-percieve that they must give up their cultural heritage in order to be Christian. There is a lot of stuff in the CCC about enculturation and cultural diversity in the catholic church.
Huckelberry said: I see the order and harmony to be the very image of God which smiles upon us each morning as we awake.
