The Brethren and Church Discipline

[_Kishkumen]

So, under what circumstances does the LDS Church sanction the public accusation of members who have not been disciplined?

Anyone? I know we have had some experienced priesthood holders with some leadership experience under their belts posting and lurking here.

How do Droopy's volunteer efforts to accuse people of apostasy publicly square with the policies and doctrines of the LDS Church as practiced and promulgated by those in authority, i.e., the General Authorities of the Church?

I mean, I don't recall the last time I saw an apostle call out someone like Paul Toscano by name, accuse him of apostasy, and then tell the other members to watch out for that wolf in sheep's clothing or some such.

[_Chap]

...

I mean, I don't recall the last time I saw an apostle call out someone like Paul Toscano by name, accuse him of apostasy, and then tell the other members to watch out for that wolf in sheep's clothing or some such.

When was the last time you saw a five-star general charging the enemy at the point of the bayonet?

They have people to do that kind of thing for them. And (so he claims) one of them is here on this board, doing the Lord's work.

[_RockSlider]

I mean, I don't recall the last time I saw an apostle call out someone like Paul Toscano by name, accuse him of apostasy, and then tell the other members to watch out for that wolf in sheep's clothing or some such.

They tend to only make phone calls to SP's that are then expected to do the dirty work

[_lostindc]

So, under what circumstances does the LDS Church sanction the public accusation of members who have not been disciplined?

Anyone? I know we have had some experienced priesthood holders with some leadership experience under their belts posting and lurking here.

How do Droopy's volunteer efforts to accuse people of apostasy publicly square with the policies and doctrines of the LDS Church as practiced and promulgated by those in authority, i.e., the General Authorities of the Church?

I mean, I don't recall the last time I saw an apostle call out someone like Paul Toscano by name, accuse him of apostasy, and then tell the other members to watch out for that wolf in sheep's clothing or some such.

Around 8 years ago, an Apostle formerly rebuked a ward and dug into a member because the member was taking shots at the current mission president and the baptize at all costs agenda applied by the mission president. The member was publicly rebuked at a stake priesthood meeting. The member shut his mouth and about 5 years later became bishop of the ward. The public statements that got the rebuked member in trouble were much less in scale than what the OMIDs are stating.

Also, I was asked to assist in holding off local press during the stake court trial of an openly gay and practicing active member in the Washington D.C. north stake. Funny thing, I openly supported this member. He was called into court because he upset the wrong leader.

These are the only first hand sources I can think of. What I learned from these accounts, is that a rebuking occurs when you piss off the right people. There were numerous members openly doing similar or much worst actions but never received discipline or rebuking.

In the case of the OMIDs and their cult followers, I imagine a rebuking will happen if it already has not happened. If the OMIDs do not fall in line then I could see Church leadership leaking the details of the first rebuking to the public in order to get OMIDs to fall in line before the next steps are necessary. I just hope that good folks such as David Bokovoy do not get caught up with OMIDs because they feel a sense of obligation/loyalty.

[_Kishkumen]

They tend to only make phone calls to SP's that are then expected to do the dirty work

But this is the way Church government works, right? I mean there is a line of authority, and that is working through the lines of authority.

But are there circumstances in which a member, who has yet to be disciplined in any way, is marked out as a sinner or apostate in public ahead of disciplinary action?

[_RockSlider]

But this is the way Church government works, right? I mean there is a line of authority, and that is working through the lines of authority.

Yes, but in the reverse (bottom appeals up as needed).

Seems several stories go that SP's are instructed to call a court like it or not. Was it not you that just mentioned Quinn's SP refused?

i.e. the Bishop is suppose to be the "Judge in Israel"

[_Kishkumen]

Around 8 years ago, an Apostle formerly rebuked a ward and dug into a member because the member was taking shots at the current mission president and the baptize at all costs agenda applied by the mission president. The member was publicly rebuked at a stake priesthood meeting.

OK, but these things happened in local units, right? Stakes and wards that were directly concerned. It is not like the apostle went online to publish a rebuke of these people for everyone to read, right?

And, the guy is an apostle, after all. If someone is going to come to a stake or ward to rebuke a member of that stake or ward, then he is the guy with the authority to do so.

What we are talking about here is some guy just taking it upon himself to correct people anytime, anywhere, as Droopy believes is his business. So, Droopy can decide that a stake in Kalamazoo is being run poorly, and then he thinks it is his business to fly up there to exhort, warn, and so forth.

I think that is plain nuts.

Also, I was asked to assist in holding off local press during the stake court trial of an openly gay and practicing active member in the Washington D.C. north stake.

So, you were asked to go out to the public and decry his sin of gayness before the world a la Droopy?

[_RockSlider]

Hyrum told me of his rebuke from BRM, screaming at the top of his lungs right in his face, but this was in an appeal situation where the meeting was behind closed doors in the appeal

[_lostindc]

Around 8 years ago, an Apostle formerly rebuked a ward and dug into a member because the member was taking shots at the current mission president and the baptize at all costs agenda applied by the mission president. The member was publicly rebuked at a stake priesthood meeting.

OK, but these things happened in local units, right? Stakes and wards that were directly concerned. It is not like the apostle went online to publish a rebuke of these people for everyone to read, right?

And, the guy is an apostle, after all. If someone is going to come to a stake or ward to rebuke a member of that stake or ward, then he is the guy with the authority to do so.

What we are talking about here is some guy just taking it upon himself to correct people anytime, anywhere, as Droopy believes is his business. So, Droopy can decide that a stake in Kalamazoo is being run poorly, and then he thinks it is his business to fly up there to exhort, warn, and so forth.

I think that is plain nuts.

Also, I was asked to assist in holding off local press during the stake court trial of an openly gay and practicing active member in the Washington D.C. north stake.

So, you were asked to go out to the public and decry his sin of gayness before the world a la Droopy?

nope, not at all. Now I understand what you are talking about. No I have never seen an apostle or any substantial LDS leader rebuke someone outside of the confines of a local priesthood meeting or LDS court process. I believe this type of behavior would bring a lot of heat and a lot of membership casualties. I have been around enough leadership activities to know everything is attempted to be done in person and hush/hush. Just like I have been stating about the OMIDs. They will not be publicly rebuked on some sort of forum, that type of behavior is left to the modern Mormon fundamentalist such as Will, Droopy, Wade, Kerry, Bill, etc.

[_Kishkumen]

nope, not at all. Now I understand what you are talking about. No I have never seen an apostle or any substantial LDS leader rebuke someone outside of the confines of a local priesthood meeting or LDS court process. I believe this type of behavior would bring a lot of heat and a lot of membership casualties. I have been around enough leadership activities to know everything is attempted to be done in person and hush/hush. Just like I have been stating about the OMIDs. They will not be publicly rebuked on some sort of forum, that type of behavior is left to the modern Mormon fundamentalist such as Will, Droopy, Wade, Kerry, Bill, etc.

So, am I supposed to believe that the apostles want people like Droopy to go around publicly accusing whichever individual member is sinning?

Is that what it means to exhort, expound, and warn?