Juggler Vain wrote:My inner city exec sec experiences revealed, in high relief, what the institution's corporate management philosophy is and does at the extremes, and sometimes it's nice, but often (usually?) it's mean and ugly. I suspect that's what you saw, too, and I doubt it's mere coincidence.
-JV
That experience was a real blow to my perception of the Church.
Me too. In fact, it remains a key factor weighing against my willingness to entertain any sort of NOMish participation in the Church. I have ethical needs.
Juggler Vain wrote:Me too. In fact, it remains a key factor weighing against my willingness to entertain any sort of NOMish participation in the Church. I have ethical needs.
I sympathize with your decision. That is a tough one.
"Petition wasn’t meant to start a witch hunt as I’ve said 6000 times." ~ Hanna Seariac, LDS apologist
Juggler Vain wrote:Me too. In fact, it remains a key factor weighing against my willingness to entertain any sort of NOMish participation in the Church. I have ethical needs.
I sympathize with your decision. That is a tough one.
I wouldn't let people like that drive you out of the Church. There will always be people like bcspace, Droopy,... that do things like this. You take a stand against it. It is wrong and not something Christ would have done. He loved the poor and the needy and the Gospel and Church should be dedicated to helping those. The rich (particularly those that don't think it is there job to help those in need) were the ones Christ stood against because of their pride and how they treated those that were less fortunate.
Last edited by Guest on Thu Jun 28, 2012 8:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"You lack vision, but I see a place where people get on and off the freeway. On and off, off and on all day, all night.... Tire salons, automobile dealerships and wonderful, wonderful billboards reaching as far as the eye can see. My God, it'll be beautiful." -- Judge Doom
Tobin wrote:I wouldn't let people like that drive you out of the Church. There will always be people like bcspace, Droopy,... that do things like this. You take a stand against it. It is wrong and not something Christ would have done. He loved the poor and the needy and the Gospel and Church should be dedicated to helping those. The rich (particilarly those that don't think it is there job to help those in need) were the ones Christ stood against because of their pride and how they treated those that were less fortunate.
I very much agree, Tobin.
"Petition wasn’t meant to start a witch hunt as I’ve said 6000 times." ~ Hanna Seariac, LDS apologist
In my experience, some bishops use the welfare program to induce people to come back to activity, and others just use it as a Christlike way to help those in need. But, despite that, there is an institutional pressure to cut welfare expenses, no matter the need. That is indeed wrong, but taking a stand against it will not make any difference. The institution is broken.
"It doesn't seem fair, does it Norm--that I should have so much knowledge when there are people in the world that have to go to bed stupid every night." -- Clifford C. Clavin, USPS
"¡No contaban con mi astucia!" -- El Chapulin Colorado
In my experience, some bishops use the welfare program to induce people to come back to activity, and others just use it as a Christlike way to help those in need. But, despite that, there is an institutional pressure to cut welfare expenses, no matter the need. That is indeed wrong, but taking a stand against it will not make any difference. The institution is broken.
Still, I don't think that invalidates conscientious membership and participation in the LDS Church.
"Petition wasn’t meant to start a witch hunt as I’ve said 6000 times." ~ Hanna Seariac, LDS apologist
In my experience, some bishops use the welfare program to induce people to come back to activity, and others just use it as a Christlike way to help those in need. But, despite that, there is an institutional pressure to cut welfare expenses, no matter the need. That is indeed wrong, but taking a stand against it will not make any difference. The institution is broken.
Kishkumen wrote: Still, I don't think that invalidates conscientious membership and participation in the LDS Church.
What would be required in order to do that?
Zadok: I did not have a faith crisis. I discovered that the Church was having a truth crisis. Maksutov: That's the problem with this supernatural stuff, it doesn't really solve anything. It's a placeholder for ignorance.
Oh believe me. There are ways to take a stand against it.
1) Tell them to their face they are wrong and quote the scriptures about what Christ said about it to them. A bit of righteous indignation doesn't hurt. Most of the time they look like they've been run over by a train when you do it.
2) Refuse to pay tithing and use it to help those in need instead - no matter what it takes. I'd encourage all members of conscience to do this and set the example for their "inspired" leaders.
3) Volunteer often in community outreach programs that help people. Ask for people to come help serve in Church OFTEN. Most think attending the temple is more important than doing this. I directly ask THOSE people to come assist because they have their priorities screwed up.
"You lack vision, but I see a place where people get on and off the freeway. On and off, off and on all day, all night.... Tire salons, automobile dealerships and wonderful, wonderful billboards reaching as far as the eye can see. My God, it'll be beautiful." -- Judge Doom
Kishkumen wrote:Still, I don't think that invalidates conscientious membership and participation in the LDS Church.
No, it doesn't. But it does mean that people in the church need to be realistic about their ability to change things in the church.
"It doesn't seem fair, does it Norm--that I should have so much knowledge when there are people in the world that have to go to bed stupid every night." -- Clifford C. Clavin, USPS
"¡No contaban con mi astucia!" -- El Chapulin Colorado
The piece should not have been squashed. John seems to be a person who does not want his take on things challenged. When one requests censorship it is usually out of fear.
I intend to lay a foundation that will revolutionize the whole world. Joseph Smith We are “to feed the hungry, to clothe the naked, to provide for the widow, to dry up the tear of the orphan, to comfort the afflicted, whether in this church, or in any other, or in no church at all…” Joseph Smith