Joseph Smith wrote witnesses statement

[_MCB]

Ummm... not a believer in the Atonement, I see.

Whew!!! I attracted the attention of someone I would rather not interact with. Thanks for the copy, Harmony.

[_Darth J]

Hogwash, MCB! Yea, Darth, as he was riding out from far west, he received the alleged revelation to separate from the saints, and later he taught many apostate things! Judas may have taught many good things too, and Baalam also, before they became apostates, but can you really trust what someone says AFTER they become an apostate?! I say NO. However, it is interesting to me that he never denied the same witness that all the others had. He could have, but if he had, he would have lost credibility.

He wasn't apostate. He received authority from God. I believe David Whitmer's statements about what God tells him.

And David Whitmer started another church in opposition to the Latter-day Saints because of his powerful testimony of the Book of Mormon. The Book of Mormon remained true even though Joseph Smith and his followers fell away from the true gospel. David Whitmer is a powerful witness of the apostasy of Joseph Smith.

[_gdemetz]

So Darth, you are telling me that you believe the one apostate, against all of the other witnesses?! I take it that you are a member of some offshoot cult of the LDS which has no hope of filling the whole earth as Daniel prophesied, am I correct?

[_Darth J]

So Darth, you are telling me that you believe the one apostate, against all of the other witnesses?! I take it that you are a member of some offshoot cult of the LDS which has no hope of filling the whole earth as Daniel prophesied, am I correct?

So, gdemetz, I see that your testimony of the truthfulness of the LDS Church is based on a fallacious appeal to numbers. If you read An Address to All Believers in Christ, you will find that David Whitmer, who had authority from God, explains that the choice seer prophesied in the Book of Mormon is not Joseph Smith. It is a future prophet to arise from the Lamanites.

All of the other Three Witnesses were apostate, too, by the way. But only from your errant point of view as a follower of Joseph Smith. You have made a compelling case for why David Whitmer should be believed, but given no reason to disbelieve him about receiving authority from God apart from your circular reasoning. "David Whitmer was apostate because the Church is true!!!" is circular reasoning.

Therefore, just as he is a witness that the Book of Mormon is true, David Whitmer is a witness that Joseph Smith was a fallen prophet.

[_gdemetz]

Your logic is very faulty, Darth! Joseph Smith restored the true church of Jesus Christ which Daniel prophesied would never be destroyed or LEFT TO OTHER PEOPLE (and certainly not apostates or apostate groups who have been deceived into believing that their little apostate cults which teach all kind of heresies will takeover and fill the whole earth! The little stone is growing and will fill the whole earth. Be careful and don't let it roll over you and crush you!

[_schreech]

So, gdemetz, I see that your testimony of the truthfulness of the LDS Church is based on a fallacious appeal to numbers. If you read An Address to All Believers in Christ, you will find that David Whitmer, who had authority from God, explains that the choice seer prophesied in the Book of Mormon is not Joseph Smith. It is a future prophet to arise from the Lamanites.

All of the other Three Witnesses were apostate, too, by the way. But only from your errant point of view as a follower of Joseph Smith. You have made a compelling case for why David Whitmer should be believed, but given no reason to disbelieve him about receiving authority from God apart from your circular reasoning. "David Whitmer was apostate because the Church is true!!!" is circular reasoning.

Therefore, just as he is a witness that the Book of Mormon is true, David Whitmer is a witness that Joseph Smith was a fallen prophet.

Darth, your argument would be much more pursuasive with more exclamation points!!!

[_gdemetz]

Yea, Screech, I get frustrated sometimes when I see things that are not sensible, such as believing one traitor over hundreds of good witnesses with good character, not to mention that if what he were saying were true, then that would invalidate the prophesy of Daniel chapter 2.

[_Darth J]

Your logic is very faulty, Darth! Joseph Smith restored the true church of Jesus Christ which Daniel prophesied would never be destroyed or LEFT TO OTHER PEOPLE (and certainly not apostates or apostate groups who have been deceived into believing that their little apostate cults which teach all kind of heresies will takeover and fill the whole earth! The little stone is growing and will fill the whole earth. Be careful and don't let it roll over you and crush you!

That of course being the self-serving interpretation of things given by Joseph Smith. But I don't trust apostates, and Joseph Smith became apostate. David Whitmer is a powerful witness of the reality of Joseph Smith's apostasy. To the end of his life, David Whitmer never denied that he had received authority from God, nor denied that Joseph Smith was a fallen prophet.

Gdemetz, I bear you my solemn witness, that I know that Joseph Smith was apostate. If you will study it out and pray with a sincere heart, you also can know by the power of the Holy Ghost that Joseph Smith was a fallen prophet who led many people astray.

[_Darth J]

Yea, Screech, I get frustrated sometimes when I see things that are not sensible, such as believing one traitor over hundreds of good witnesses with good character, not to mention that if what he were saying were true, then that would invalidate the prophesy of Daniel chapter 2.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum

[_Equality]

You guys are only making assumptions to agree with what you want to believe! I repeat, do you know exactly when David received that "revelation" from God telling him to separate?! If you really know what you are talking about, then just give me the date of the receipt of that "revelation"!

Two people have asked what the date was for the restoration of the Melchizidek Priesthood, gdmetz, and one asked for the date for the First Vision. Do you not see the irony in your demanding a date for the revelation claimed by David Whitmer while refusing to provide the same for the Melchizidek Priesthood restoration or First Vision? It's by consistently, relentlessly refusing to answer basic questions directly and consistently, relentlessly seeking to apply a double standard to your own truth claims that you lose all credibility with sane, reasonable people. Put up or shut up, gdmetz.