Dear Droopy: Joseph Smith said the Lamanites are a race

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_tapirrider
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Re: Dear Droopy: Joseph Smith said the Lamanites are a race

Post by _tapirrider »

There is no mention in the Book of Mormon of "race" in the modern sense, nor any teaching regarding any innate or inherent inferiority between the Nephites or Lamanites based on anything but culture and behavior.


Droopy, inferiority based on culture is racism. If it stayed in the pages of the fictional Book of Mormon there would be no complaint, but Mormonism applies it to living people.

If whites in the old South had only thought of black people as looking different, there would have been little problem. But they thought of blacks as a separate and distinct sub-species of human being


Mormonism still teaches that the American Indians are cursed if they continue to practice their culture. The curse will only be lifted if they become LDS. See? It is more than just looking different. It is racism.
_Cylon
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Re: Dear Droopy: Joseph Smith said the Lamanites are a race

Post by _Cylon »

"It depends on what the meaning of the words 'is' is."
_Droopy
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Re: Dear Droopy: Joseph Smith said the Lamanites are a race

Post by _Droopy »

The problem is that Droopy's argument ignores the fact that labeling a culture to be inferior is racist.


It may be. It may also be the result of completely rational and intelligent comparison and contrast within a framework of accepted standards. It may be either, on a case by case basis.

This, of course, is one of the standard tropes of the contemporary progressive Left utilized to circumvent and shut down serious discourse before it even begins, and to preserve the Left's sham moral hegemony in the marketplace of ideas.

To be perfectly clear, I'm not talking about the mythical people in the Book of Mormon now, I'm talking about the living people that the Book of Mormon applies to; The American Indian enrolled tribal members in the US. The Book of Mormon is racist by the definition given in The United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples

Page 2
Affirming further that all doctrines, policies and practices based on or advocating superiority of peoples or individuals on the basis of national origin or racial, religious, ethnic or cultural differences are racist, scientifically false, legally invalid, morally condemnable and socially unjust


No intelligent person takes the vast, all-encompassing and logically incoherent statements subscribed to by a gaggle of communists, Marxists, fascists, thugs, kleptocrats, and self anointed, self serving philosopher kings seriously anymore (if they ever did). This is a potpourri of concepts, some of which have obvious, but vague and indistinct relations to each other, and others which have none ( national origin, religion, ethnicity, and culture have no necessary connection to race, nor to each other except on a case by case basis. One can be Chinese, Christian, have been born in Norway, and be culturally Norwegian, just as one can be black, raised in Taiwan (ethnically Taiwanese), be a Confucian, and like Jazz. "Race" is just the human race, unless one is using it as Joseph and the Book of Mormon use it, as interchangeable with ethnicity and culture. Darth admits as much when he points out inadvertently that, for Joseph, both the Lamanites and Nephites, whom Darth wants us to think church doctrine posits as a different "race" from the Nephites and from modern Caucasians, were nothing more than divergent ethnicities and cultures.

The same is true with regard to the Jaradites, who were just as much from the House of Israel as the Lamanties and the Nephites, and hence, a divergent culture and ethnic background, not different "races" in the pre and especially post-antebellum South and modern PC sense.

Mormonism does in fact teach that American Indians must accept the LDS gospel or they remain cursed.


As must all who do not accept it, including entire cultural groups in a generalized sense who's overarching traditions and culture (excepting certain individuals within it) are incompatible with the gospel (modernist Western Caucasian "gentile" culture, for example, as prophesied in the Book of Mormon itself).

This is called, "banality."

Droopy did make mention of existing degenerate cultures.


Yes, I did. Not races.
Nothing is going to startle us more when we pass through the veil to the other side than to realize how well we know our Father [in Heaven] and how familiar his face is to us

- President Ezra Taft Benson


I am so old that I can remember when most of the people promoting race hate were white.

- Thomas Sowell
_Droopy
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Re: Dear Droopy: Joseph Smith said the Lamanites are a race

Post by _Droopy »

Droopy, inferiority based on culture is racism.


No, its an inferior culture, period. Its a culture that does not "work" in that it does not encourage or support, in a critical number of its members, the kind of values, attitudes, perceptions, ethics, virtues, and moral concepts necessary to the maintenance of a viable and successful social order.

You're assertion here is simply the standard multiculturalist cliché of contemporary academic and pop media world as cultural Marxism, otherwise known, as you are deploying it here in its most vulgar form, as "political correctness." It has no serious philosophical content, and as an ideological anathema, it isn't supposed to.

Mormonism still teaches that the American Indians are cursed if they continue to practice their culture. The curse will only be lifted if they become LDS. See?


Yes, I see quite clearly that you are a blind, lurching ideologue who thinks your intellectually castrated ideological cliches are going to buy you acceptance and accolades in the great and spacious culture club with the other hip and smart people.

Satan, however, will not support his children in the end.
Nothing is going to startle us more when we pass through the veil to the other side than to realize how well we know our Father [in Heaven] and how familiar his face is to us

- President Ezra Taft Benson


I am so old that I can remember when most of the people promoting race hate were white.

- Thomas Sowell
_Bob Loblaw
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Re: Dear Droopy: Joseph Smith said the Lamanites are a race

Post by _Bob Loblaw »

Droopy wrote:Yes, I see quite clearly that you are a blind, lurching ideologue who thinks your intellectually castrated ideological cliches are going to buy you acceptance and accolades in the great and spacious culture club with the other hip and smart people.


Image

People in that club not only point fingers of derision but will tumble 4 ya.
"It doesn't seem fair, does it Norm--that I should have so much knowledge when there are people in the world that have to go to bed stupid every night." -- Clifford C. Clavin, USPS

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_tapirrider
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Re: Dear Droopy: Joseph Smith said the Lamanites are a race

Post by _tapirrider »

Droopy, you are a racist but I'm afraid you are too ignorant to realize it. I only hope that your insults of the American Indian culture reflect your ideas only and not the majority of LDS members. You may wish to consider refraining from posting things such as this in news media comments where it will been seen by a much wider segment of the public. It will damage your church.
_DarkHelmet
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Re: Dear Droopy: Joseph Smith said the Lamanites are a race

Post by _DarkHelmet »

Droopy wrote:
Droopy, inferiority based on culture is racism.


No, its an inferior culture, period. Its a culture that does not "work" in that it does not encourage or support, in a critical number of its members, the kind of values, attitudes, perceptions, ethics, virtues, and moral concepts necessary to the maintenance of a viable and successful social order.



funny. The culture worked just fine for thousands and thousands of years. You need to read some books on Native American culture that were written more recently than 1830, and were written by people who actually studied the cultures.
"We have taken up arms in defense of our liberty, our property, our wives, and our children; we are determined to preserve them, or die."
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Re: Dear Droopy: Joseph Smith said the Lamanites are a race

Post by _Bob Loblaw »

tapirrider wrote:Droopy, you are a racist but I'm afraid you are too ignorant to realize it. I only hope that your insults of the American Indian culture reflect your ideas only and not the majority of LDS members. You may wish to consider refraining from posting things such as this in news media comments where it will been seen by a much wider segment of the public. It will damage your church.


It's not race but lineage that is cursed. And how do you distinguish the lineage? By their skin color, duh. Nothing racist about that.

This is what Mormonism does to people: it forces them to defend racism because they can't admit that their scriptures and prophets can be wrong.
"It doesn't seem fair, does it Norm--that I should have so much knowledge when there are people in the world that have to go to bed stupid every night." -- Clifford C. Clavin, USPS

"¡No contaban con mi astucia!" -- El Chapulin Colorado
_Bob Loblaw
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Re: Dear Droopy: Joseph Smith said the Lamanites are a race

Post by _Bob Loblaw »

DarkHelmet wrote:funny. The culture worked just fine for thousands and thousands of years. You need to read some books on Native American culture that were written more recently than 1830, and were written by people who actually studied the cultures.


No kidding. Native American culture worked fine for Native Americans. It's only racists like Droopy who think that a culture that works is "inferior."
"It doesn't seem fair, does it Norm--that I should have so much knowledge when there are people in the world that have to go to bed stupid every night." -- Clifford C. Clavin, USPS

"¡No contaban con mi astucia!" -- El Chapulin Colorado
_Droopy
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Re: Dear Droopy: Joseph Smith said the Lamanites are a race

Post by _Droopy »

tapirrider wrote:Droopy, you are a racist but I'm afraid you are too ignorant to realize it. I only hope that your insults of the American Indian culture reflect your ideas only and not the majority of LDS members. You may wish to consider refraining from posting things such as this in news media comments where it will been seen by a much wider segment of the public. It will damage your church.


Hmmm, could you provide a CFR as to where I have "insulted" American Indian culture?

Thanks in advance.
Nothing is going to startle us more when we pass through the veil to the other side than to realize how well we know our Father [in Heaven] and how familiar his face is to us

- President Ezra Taft Benson


I am so old that I can remember when most of the people promoting race hate were white.

- Thomas Sowell
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