How did it go so horribly wrong?

[_Tobin]

And, of course, all of this stuff in the King Follette Discourse is given without the slightest shred of minimal evidence in any regard whatsoever. We are told that we must simply accept and believe....accept and believe......have faith in our words brethren, accept and believe. Notice, no one ever says anymore to think about something, to ask a question or two, to possibly muse about things in a slightly different light. Were you to actually disagree with the teacher in church it would probably shock half the class, and dismay the other half. Pretty soon the good ole Stake President would be trottin his fat butt into the room to sit by you and hold your hand and make sure you don't ruffle feathers or disturb the still waters of the sweet spirit filled tranquility of the brain-dead.

Of course not. You shouldn't believe in Mormonism UNLESS God tells you to. And Mormons that use feelings for such things aren't using good judgement. Joseph Smith sets the bar at seeing God, angels, and Gold Books. If you don't experience something similar, it is a load of crap.

[_Chap]

I certainly don't believe men or women can be Gods or Goddesses. I think it all stems from people misunderstanding and misconstruing the King Follet Sermon and the plan of salvation. I also believe Mormons greatly sin by teaching such things and when they do so they do so in solemn mockery of God, ignorant arrogance of the sacrifice of Jesus Christ, and it is the root of other terrible and pernicious false doctrines in the LDS Church.

But ...

The King Follett Sermon said:

Here, then, is eternal life—to know the only wise and true God; and you have got to learn how to be gods yourselves, and to be kings and priests to God, the same as all gods have done before you, namely, by going from one small degree to another, and from a small capacity to a great one; from grace to grace, from exaltation to exaltation, until you attain to the resurrection of the dead, and are able to dwell in everlasting burnings, and to sit in glory, as do those who sit enthroned in everlasting power. And I want you to know that God, in the last days, while certain individuals are proclaiming His name, is not trifling with you or me.

Seems pretty clear to me.

[_Bob Loblaw]

Listen up crybabies.

Piss off.

[_Bob Loblaw]

The books are open.

Bollocks.

There's nothing catastrophic to any truth claim.

Not for people who desperately need to believe, like you.

With regards to the other books, no apostles or prophets are jet setting around the world and none of them spend lots of time relaxing on some island paradise.

No, but lots of families and businesses are profiting from the cash cow called the LDS church.

This is, as Brian Laundrie alludes, just an attitude problem among you. A seriously intellectually dishonest one.

It's hard to have a good attitude about a destructive, greedy organization. And it's depressing that it has its blind cheerleaders like you.

[_Tobin]

I certainly don't believe men or women can be Gods or Goddesses. I think it all stems from people misunderstanding and misconstruing the King Follet Sermon and the plan of salvation. I also believe Mormons greatly sin by teaching such things and when they do so they do so in solemn mockery of God, ignorant arrogance of the sacrifice of Jesus Christ, and it is the root of other terrible and pernicious false doctrines in the LDS Church.

But ...

The King Follett Sermon said:

Here, then, is eternal life—to know the only wise and true God; and you have got to learn how to be gods yourselves, and to be kings and priests to God, the same as all gods have done before you, namely, by going from one small degree to another, and from a small capacity to a great one; from grace to grace, from exaltation to exaltation, until you attain to the resurrection of the dead, and are able to dwell in everlasting burnings, and to sit in glory, as do those who sit enthroned in everlasting power. And I want you to know that God, in the last days, while certain individuals are proclaiming His name, is not trifling with you or me.

Seems pretty clear to me.

No really. Note the lowercase 'g' in gods vs 'G' in God. If you are going to dabble in a religion like Mormonism (or others that are based on the Bible), you should come armed with at least some comprehension of what is being discussed. 'gods' here is an appellation which indicates a greater nearness to God than any other which is bestowed on other men. It implies you are like unto God. Often it is used in the Bible for representatives of God on earth.

[_Philo Sofee]

And, of course, all of this stuff in the King Follette Discourse is given without the slightest shred of minimal evidence in any regard whatsoever. We are told that we must simply accept and believe....accept and believe......have faith in our words brethren, accept and believe. Notice, no one ever says anymore to think about something, to ask a question or two, to possibly muse about things in a slightly different light. Were you to actually disagree with the teacher in church it would probably shock half the class, and dismay the other half. Pretty soon the good ole Stake President would be trottin his fat butt into the room to sit by you and hold your hand and make sure you don't ruffle feathers or disturb the still waters of the sweet spirit filled tranquility of the brain-dead.

Of course not. You shouldn't believe in Mormonism UNLESS God tells you to. And Mormons that use feelings for such things aren't using good judgement. Joseph Smith sets the bar at seeing God, angels, and Gold Books. If you don't experience something similar, it is a load of crap.

That's a nice sentiment, however, what is the reality we find in church? We are to get our testimonies from our church leaders. And what happens, what does it mean when I have come to realize, in all honesty, that God has never spoken to me. Nothing comes from God, it's all from man and men? I am becoming agnostic on all of what I have been told is true. Does God even care about that? Surely He who is supposed to know all things even the future and my very serious doubts would have the foresight to at least head off someone's disbelief and unbelief? That is assuming God actually cares about anything going on on earth.
God doesn't do anything in the Mormon church once one starts seeing the logic of men running the show. Once you seriously begin looking at the Bible, pretty much everything flies out the window when logic rears its head of thinking.

[_Tobin]

Of course not. You shouldn't believe in Mormonism UNLESS God tells you to. And Mormons that use feelings for such things aren't using good judgement. Joseph Smith sets the bar at seeing God, angels, and Gold Books. If you don't experience something similar, it is a load of crap.

That's a nice sentiment, however, what is the reality we find in church? We are to get our testimonies from our church leaders. And what happens, what does it mean when I have come to realize, in all honesty, that God has never spoken to me. Nothing comes from God, it's all from man and men? I am becoming agnostic on all of what I have been told is true. Does God even care about that? Surely He who is supposed to know all things even the future and my very serious doubts would have the foresight to at least head off someone's disbelief and unbelief? That is assuming God actually cares about anything going on on earth.
God doesn't do anything in the Mormon church once one starts seeing the logic of men running the show. Once you seriously begin looking at the Bible, pretty much everything flies out the window when logic rears its head of thinking.

It isn't a senitment. That is exactly why I choose to be Mormon. Otherwise, there is NO reason to be Mormon. The claims are absurd, preposterous, ridiculous and so on. People DO NOT see God, Angels, and have Gold Books land in their laps. It is simply a fact. Unless that happens to you, there is no reason to believe it. The Book of Mormon, the Bible, Joseph Smith, and so on make these claims. IF they are true, we had better be able to experience EXACLTY the same stuff or it is all non-sense.

[_Cylon]

It isn't a senitment. That is exactly why I choose to be Mormon. Otherwise, there is NO reason to be Mormon. The claims are absurd, preposterous, ridiculous and so on. People DO NOT see God, Angels, and have Gold Books land in their laps. It is simply a fact. Unless that happens to you, there is no reason to believe it. The Book of Mormon, the Bible, Joseph Smith, and so on make these claims. IF they are true, we had better be able to experience EXACLTY the same stuff or it is all non-sense.

If all Mormons thought that way, you would belong to a very, very small church. Do you think there would even be any apostles left?

[_Bob Loblaw]

If all Mormons thought that way, you would belong to a very, very small church. Do you think there would even be any apostles left?

It is refreshing to hear a believing Mormon acknowledge that, absent a testimony, the church's claims are absurd. Kudos to Tobin for his honesty.

[_Tobin]

It isn't a senitment. That is exactly why I choose to be Mormon. Otherwise, there is NO reason to be Mormon. The claims are absurd, preposterous, ridiculous and so on. People DO NOT see God, Angels, and have Gold Books land in their laps. It is simply a fact. Unless that happens to you, there is no reason to believe it. The Book of Mormon, the Bible, Joseph Smith, and so on make these claims. IF they are true, we had better be able to experience EXACLTY the same stuff or it is all non-sense.

If all Mormons thought that way, you would belong to a very, very small church. Do you think there would even be any apostles left?

No, but it might be a pure faith and maybe even a Christ-like faith as well. One based on the spirit instead of a bureaucracy and dedicated to doing some good in the world instead of building monuments to itself. I can't think the Lord is too pleased with how the LDS Church conducts itself.