THE JERSEY GIRL MEGATHREAD

[_Tator]

I have watched Jersey Girl on this board for a couple of years, and I have read most of the material on this board relevant to this discussion. On that basis, I am inclined to agree with Shades' judgment above.

Jersey Girl was one of those posters who seem to think that being angry a lot does something to enhance the credibility and interest of their contributions to the board. Others believe that obscenity and cuss-words do the same for them. In the case of Schryver we saw that come spectacularly unstuck when he abused Emma Hale Smith as a "prize b***h" on this board - at a time, I may add, when I was online and saw the post go up. He clearly regrets the consequences that have followed from that and other abuse directed against women, but he acted as he did, and the inevitable consequences have followed. The same applies, changing the variables to fit the different case, to Jersey Girl.

In the case of Jersey Girl, the language she used could, in my view, quite reasonably be interpreted as containing threats of legal action that could affect Shades personally. When he read her posts, Shades was faced with a judgement call that only he could make. Based on those posts, I think he made the call that I and many other posters on this board would have made, and banned her.

Jersey Girl is now apparently claiming that it was all a misunderstanding, and that she was not intending to express an intention to take legal action that might have harmed Shades. Maybe, maybe ... But since I don't think Shades is under any obligation to take any personal risks in a matter such as this, I think we have to leave it to him to make the final decision here.

The take-home lesson for Jersey Girl is, I suggest "If doing angry online floats your boat, make sure that even when you are in full flood you take the time to make your real meaning quite clear." And, in the well-worn phrase "It's time to move on".

+1000

I believe Chap that your assessment is spot on about Jersey Girl and Willy. I was online for both incidents. I was away for the lead up to the ultimatum by Jersey Girl but caught the dialogue live that Dr. Shades has outlined. His take is exactly my take. Also Chap I was online for the Willy Emma is a b****h comment and I mentally noted that the TBM's are not going like that comment. I have been totally disgusted with Willy for years and that is why in my "anger" I drafted the "Will Shryver: Vulgar Scatologist" thread. I regrettably had some quote errors in it or it may have got a lot more traction than it did. MsJack later did a scholarly and accurate thread of basically the same theme.

Bottom line I am backing Dr. Shades +1000

[_Alter Idem]

For LDST, the classless piece of s*** himself, my comments regarding Jersey Girl can be found here:

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=24868&p=615162#p615162

While I am proud of my title, the thing that's really classless is Jersey Girl's inability to take responsibility for her actions, and her posse of pussies whining about her banning every few weeks.

H.

Why is it that you can make misogynistic remarks like the one above and no one starts a thread about you?

Don't bother to answer--I point it out because it's another example of the double standard on this board. Apparently the dismissive, offensive crap spewed by some of the men on this board and directed at women is only offensive if it's said by an 'LDS apologist'.

[_Alter Idem]

What is missing in this discussion is the context. [personal information deleted]. I don't know what the psychological words are but I think she viewed Darrick in much the same way as the [personal information deleted]. In addition ..on a few if not more occasions it has been painfully slow trying to get mods to respond to situations. In some cases the mods or Shades have decided nothing should be done (I had personal experience with that myself) and in other cases after much discussion eventually something gets done, but it took lots of time and perseverance to get that accomplished..and I know Jersey Girl has had that experience. Couple that context with Jersey Girl posting behavior I've observed over many years where from time to time she likes to talk tough..but it's basically internet bluster.

So in my opinion Jersey Girl over-reacted but I think that was because she perceived Darrick as a similar threat as [personal information deleted]. She got caught up emotionally in the moment..as sometimes happens with posters on message boards..myself included. I don't believe she got any feedback from you EA even though you were on the board. She likely thought it would take days before any mod would handle anything..because that's what has happened in the past. And perceiving Darrick to be a real and dangerous threat...she was trying to do her damnedest to get a mod to respond.

So I think given the background information..some slack should be given Jersey Girl. She got caught up in the moment,over reacted but what I know of Jersey Girl's behavior via messageboards ..I don't think for one minute she would have ever initiated any legal action..that was to some extent typical bluster from her taken up a notch. Yes she contacted the admin host...but that was to find out if the board didn't handle it ..then if she could get the web host to handle it. Granted she shouldn't have reacted so quickly and make demands with such short time frame but again based on her personal experience [personal information deleted] likely in her mind time was of the essence.

So...I'm positive Jersey Girl was never a threat to this board or to any mod...her goal rightly or wrongly was to get Darrick banned..because she perceived him as a dangerous threat.

Marg, I agree with you. And I think that Jersey Girl's tragedy/perception of the threat was not taken into consideration by her friend, Shades when he was forced to deal with the fall out from decisions he made for how to handle Darrick and his participation on the board.

[_LDSToronto]

What is missing in this discussion is the context. [personal information deleted].

I may be wrong, but I was pretty certain Jersey Girl did not share that information on the board. She spoke about it in chat, and she confided in other board members, but I don't think she ever posted about it openly.

I think we should respect Jersey Girl's privacy with respect to her personal life and delete Marg's post.

H.

[_LDSToronto]

While I am proud of my title, the thing that's really classless is Jersey Girl's inability to take responsibility for her actions, and her posse of pussies whining about her banning every few weeks.

H.

Why is it that you can make misogynistic remarks like the one above and no one starts a thread about you?

If you'd like to start a thread about me and my misogyny, knock yourself out. Post as many examples as you can find.

Don't bother to answer--I point it out because it's another example of the double standard on this board. Apparently the dismissive, offensive crap spewed by some of the men on this board and directed at women is only offensive if it's said by an 'LDS apologist'.

Pussies = cowards. Let's make that accepted colloquialism clear. And I haven't seen anyone criticizing Jersey Girl based on her gender. And finally, I don't know the gender of every vocal Jersey Girl supporter - hell, I don't know if you are a man or a woman, Alter Idem.

I'm a classless piece of crap, but misogynist? If you can find proof, go ahead and skewer me.

H.

[_Jason Bourne]

What do you mean "did seem like"? It WAS an ultimatum and was fully backed with threats from an enraged person who has anger management problems. I hate to say it and I don't mean to be nasty -- could it have been her time of the month?



Paul O

Really Paul? This is rich given what your posting style is these days....full of rants, swearing and vile. You used to be a rather gently soul. I understand your anger towards the Church. But if you are now happy why the constant angry posting?

[_Chap]

What is missing in this discussion is the context. [personal information deleted]. I don't know what the psychological words are but I think she viewed Darrick in much the same way as the [personal information deleted]. In addition ..on a few if not more occasions it has been painfully slow trying to get mods to respond to situations. In some cases the mods or Shades have decided nothing should be done (I had personal experience with that myself) and in other cases after much discussion eventually something gets done, but it took lots of time and perseverance to get that accomplished..and I know Jersey Girl has had that experience. Couple that context with Jersey Girl posting behavior I've observed over many years where from time to time she likes to talk tough..but it's basically internet bluster.

So in my opinion Jersey Girl over-reacted but I think that was because she perceived Darrick as a similar threat as [personal information deleted]. She got caught up emotionally in the moment..as sometimes happens with posters on message boards..myself included. I don't believe she got any feedback from you EA even though you were on the board. She likely thought it would take days before any mod would handle anything..because that's what has happened in the past. And perceiving Darrick to be a real and dangerous threat...she was trying to do her damnedest to get a mod to respond.

So I think given the background information..some slack should be given Jersey Girl. She got caught up in the moment,over reacted but what I know of Jersey Girl's behavior via messageboards ..I don't think for one minute she would have ever initiated any legal action..that was to some extent typical bluster from her taken up a notch. Yes she contacted the admin host...but that was to find out if the board didn't handle it ..then if she could get the web host to handle it. Granted she shouldn't have reacted so quickly and make demands with such short time frame but again based on her personal experience [personal information deleted] likely in her mind time was of the essence.

So...I'm positive Jersey Girl was never a threat to this board or to any mod...her goal rightly or wrongly was to get Darrick banned..because she perceived him as a dangerous threat.

Marg, I agree with you. And I think that Jersey Girl's tragedy/perception of the threat was not taken into consideration by her friend, Shades when he was forced to deal with the fall out from decisions he made for how to handle Darrick and his participation on the board.

None of this changes my view on the reasonableness of Shades' judgement call, given what Jersey Girl posted here.

If Jersey Girl issued enraged threats of legal action she didn't really mean because of issues in her family life, I do not see why Shades had any obligation (or indeed, any right) to take risks with his own family's peace and security in order to indulge her. He still doesn't have any such obligation, and since he has made it clear he will not change his mind I do not see what point there is in prolonging the discussion.

[_LDSToronto]

Publish the whole damned thread from the Mod Forum. That is fine with me. LDST is free to publish the PMs that Jersey Girl sent him. SHE is fine with it.

Again, this is no longer about getting Jersey Girl reinstated. This is about the truth.

Since I've been given permission from a moderator and from Jersey Girl, here are the PMs between Jersey Girl and me. I have included the full, unedited text of my PMs to Jersey Girl, and her PMs to me.

Background note: When I saw Derrick making threats to Dan Peterson, I did two things - first, I started a boycott thread stating I would not post on this board until Derrick was removed, and two, I sent Dan Peterson a PM via MormonDialogue alerting him to Derrick's recent break. And now, on to the PMs:

Do you know who the web host for this board is?

I am pretty sure it is DreamHost, but I am not 100% sure. Give me a few minutes and I will find out.

OK, just double-checked. Mormondiscussions is definitely hosted by DreamHost.

Thank you. I'm done with this bloody nonsense. If Joseph can get this board taken down, then so can I. I'm not up for EA's quibbling regarding this issue.

At the same time, Jersey Girl opened another PM thread with me, regarding my position to boycott the board until Derrick was banned:

Re: I agree with your position, however, I've taken one of my own. I've posted it in your new Boycott thread.

I agree with your position. I can't believe that people would put a message board ahead of personal safety.

PS. I won't be replying to any posts in that thread, or in any thread, so PM is the only way to contact me.

Yeah, I get what you're doing with regards to not posting publicly from here on out. Can you show me on the board where you found that it's hosted by Dreamhost? Or tell me how you found that information? I'm giving them 10 minutes to block Darrick and then I will go about the business of sending a complaint to Dreamhost.

http://reports.internic.net/cgi/whois?w ... ype=domain

Okay, I appreciate it. I'm looking at the DreamHost website and terms of service. According to their contract, Mav is fully liable for what goes on here and what Darrick has done is against their "Acceptable Use Policy". That is, assuming that making threats is,

"Also, using DreamHost’s servers or network to conspire to commit or support the commission of illegal activities is forbidden as well."

and

"Collecting or using email addresses, screen names or other personal identifiers without the consent of the person identified (including, without limitation, phishing, Internet scamming, password robbery, spidering, and harvesting)."

DreamHost incurs no liability whatsoever. This is part of the Terms of Use agreement.

I'm giving them the 15 minutes I offered, after that I'm contacting DreamHost. When it comes to threatening behavior, I act swiftly.

Unlike EAllusion who should have blocked Darrick's IP as soon as the complaints rolled in and at least put him "on hold" until Shades was available.

I'm giving them the 15 minutes I offered, after that I'm contacting DreamHost. When it comes to threatening behavior, I act swiftly. Unlike EAllusion who should have blocked Darrick's IP as soon as the complaints rolled in and at least put him "on hold" until Shades was available.

I filed a complaint with DreamHost. I find it strange that three moderators were online just a few minutes ago and that none of the three saw fit to temporarily block Darrick's IP until Shades made himself accessible. If ever there were an obvious reason to block a poster, this was it. I regret that none of them chose to act. I have no way of knowing how or if DreamHost will respond. I feel confident I did what I believed was right and best to do.Unlike the mod team."

I sent [Dr. Shades] a message regarding my complaint to DreamHost, he is banning [Derrick] at least temporarily until he can figure things out. I gave him the back story in brief form.

I have no respect left for EA.

Now Shades is pissed at me.

I just got an email from DCP in a multiple e-mailing. In it there is a message from you, a message from him to you, and one to Shades in red bold text.

He has my email only because another poster send him a multiple e-mailing with my address on it. I have never emailed him even once.

I don't think I will respond to this email. When the emails return, they list our in real life names.

Holy s***, it looks like this board is becoming a mine field. I will have to give serious consideration to joining your boycott.

This board should be fun.

This morning I sent DCP a PM via MormonDialogue because 'Inconceivable' had posted DCP's PM for Derrick to see, and that seemed to set Derrick off. Since Derrick has a history of paying DCP visits at BYU, I thought it was the right thing to notify Dan that Derrick may be paying him another visit.

I included my in real life first name, as a gesture of sincerity.

I can see the exchanges in the email, [My in real life name deleted]. I am more of a mind to join your boycott now. Shades, first thanked me for telling him what happened and then he turned on me for making the complaint asking me if there was any "special reason" why I didn't find out from EA if he'd taken action before making a complaint. I sent him a link to the post I made with the request for banning and notification of banning.

I think he might ban me like he did Joseph for making a complaint to the host. He didn't say he'd ban me, but he banned Joseph for similar reasons. Apparently I'm now the bad guy for making the complaint.

I alerted Shades to check his email about the DCP multiple emailing. He's got more problems than me making a complaint to DreamHost.

If the board gets taken offline, I will simply contact someone via email to see how things are going.

In the most recent post by EA:

Dr. Shades has specifically requested that he be allowed to make the call on this, and I am willing to be deferential to that.

Shades told me that EA already banned Darrick for one month.

I suppose it's asking too much for a little truth around here.

All EA had to do was mention that the ban was in effect, and all this could have been avoided.

I know. Shades sent me another message. He is off the charts pissed at me.

[_Shulem]

Pussies = cowards. Let's make that accepted colloquialism clear. And I haven't seen anyone criticizing Jersey Girl based on her gender. And finally, I don't know the gender of every vocal Jersey Girl supporter - hell, I don't know if you are a man or a woman, Alter Idem.

From now on it's no longer "Josie", but JERSEY and the Pussy Cats!

[_marg]

None of this changes my view on the reasonableness of Shades' judgement call, given what Jersey Girl posted here.

If Jersey Girl issued enraged threats of legal action she didn't really mean because of [tangential personal information deleted], I do not see why Shades had any obligation (or indeed, any right) to take risks with his own family's peace and security in order to indulge her. He still doesn't have any such obligation, and since he has made it clear he will not change his mind I do not see what point there is in prolonging the discussion.

in my opinion, if Jersey Girl had recently acknowledged via Liz...that she shouldn't have said she intended to "initiate" anything which might lead to legal ramifications..I'd still be supportive of her...but because she's not acknowledging this, I'm currently not supportive. While I believe she never would have intended to "initiate" anything which would lead to legal ramifications...she hasn't acknowledged. She's not acknowledged that she over-reacted in making a threat she had not intended but said in the emotional heat of the moment. Not acknowledged time was not a crucial factor ...no need for any ultimatum of a 15 minute response or else....and threats of initiating anything which might lead to legal ramifications was inappropriate.

Jersey Girl you are sticking to your guns that how you handled things and what you said was well justified..and I don't agree with that. I believe I understand why you said and did the things you did and I understand you would not intentionally create serious problems for the board, Shades or any mod. I understand you had the best intentions at heart. But you are not acknowledging you used bully tactics which were not necessary. At the time you may have perceived pressure bully tactics to be necessary, but upon reflection I think you should acknowledge that they weren't.