Flip Side of the Coin

[_RockSlider]

Not really. I'm just trying to differentiate between the deity Latter-day Saints believe in, and the deities that other groups (like Evangelicals, Methodists, etc.) believe in. I'm not trying to say that those other deities actually exist.

But you are saying that the "other groups (like Evangelicals, Methodist, etc.)" God is not the LDS God ... is that right?

[_KevinSim]

In short you can't answer the question.

Of course I can't "answer the question"! I'm not a city planner, let alone a world planner. I don't know what would be in the world's best interests in the long term, like over a span of the mentioned ten thousand years (let alone the eternities).

But my point is that I really doubt that you are exceptionally talented as such a planner either. Sure, establishing free health clinics sounds like a great idea, but I doubt that either you or I have analyzed things out to the last detail so that we know for certain that building those health clinics, and refraining from building shopping malls in downtown urban areas, will benefit humanity in the long run.

On the other hand, benefiting humanity in the long run is pretty much God's job! If one has reason to believe there is a good God who loves us and wants us to know Her/His will, and if there's reason to believe that deity inspires Thomas Monson, then it's perfectly reasonable to consider the possibility that City Creek might be a part (even an essential part) of a plan that benefits humanity in the long run.

[_RockSlider]

When I asked God if the LDS Church was true in 1976, one of the prophets of the church that God answered me regarding was Wilford Woodruff, who said that God would not permit that he or any other president of the church would ever lead the Latter-day Saints astray. So by telling me that the LDS Church was true, God was also telling me that the LDS Church would always be true.

This sounds like one of Darth J's sock puppets, making totally absurd, and yet overly orthodox statements of faith.

You’re out of touch statements about gay suicide in the church are also a bit too out of touch to believe.

If it were not for your OP testimony, I'd call you a troll.

[_KevinSim]

I already told you. Put on ears or remain deaf.

If you already told me, then point me to where you already told me.

[_Chap]

In short you can't answer the question.

Of course I can't "answer the question"! I'm not a city planner, let alone a world planner. I don't know what would be in the world's best interests in the long term, like over a span of the mentioned ten thousand years (let alone the eternities).

But my point is that I really doubt that you are exceptionally talented as such a planner either. Sure, establishing free health clinics sounds like a great idea, but I doubt that either you or I have analyzed things out to the last detail so that we know for certain that building those health clinics, and refraining from building shopping malls in downtown urban areas, will benefit humanity in the long run.

On the other hand, benefiting humanity in the long run is pretty much God's job! If one has reason to believe there is a good God who loves us and wants us to know Her/His will, and if there's reason to believe that deity inspires Thomas Monson, then it's perfectly reasonable to consider the possibility that City Creek might be a part (even an essential part) of a plan that benefits humanity in the long run.

Sounds like a neat recipe for a theocracy.

I really hope that Romney does not think this way ...

[_palerobber]

more power to you, KevinSim.

if you can just refrain from voting for official discrimination then i have nothing against you or any other believer.

Palerobber, I could probably try to guess what you mean by "official discrimination," but it would probably be a lot more productive if you told me what you mean yourself.

or you could stop pretending that it's not abundantly clear what i'm refering to.

[_Nightlion]

Kevin, I can understand how it was you missed it.
What I said enters a Mormons mind overwritten by years of confabulations. You cannot comprehend these words as plain as they are because you need a leader to explain them before the code is broken and the blinders come off and your ears hear and your heart is penetrated and the possibility of your repentance is nigh.

I had to scold because I am packing so much attitude of late. The greatest sin is to defy God after partaking of his power. It is therefore THAT partaking of his power, when you are truly visited of the Father's promise, (see Acts 1) and changed from your fallen state to a state of righteousness by the regeneration of Christ's power to conceive you his son or daughter. This is the baptism of fire and of the Holy Ghost which Jesus commanded his disciples to wait for and to continue with one accord until it came.

Are Mormons ever taught how to come unto Christ and continue with one accord until the promise of the Father is realized in the actual baptism of fire and of the Holy Ghost? (see Acts 1) No!

In other worlds your prophets and apostles do not know anything about it and fail their high callings and trample the Holy One of Israel underfoot. THAT IS APOSTASY.

TAKE THIS TO YOUR LEADERS

[_Themis]

This is why people like your wife have no interest in the details that may show their beliefs incorrect.

My reaction to this is that, in my wife's point of view, those details don't show her beliefs are incorrect.

That's because she is a feeler. Feelers tend to not value any evidence expect their own feelings. Why do you think so many can believe in a young earth and world wide flood despite all the overwhelming evidence to the contrary? This does not make them bad people.

I am referring to things that have a bearing on that question, although we may have a different take on what does have a bearing here.

Exactly.

You have already admitted you will view the church as true regardless of any evidence. That's the real difference between us.

[_Themis]

I think you will find that most don't want to kill themselves.

And yet many of them do kill themselves, you say. Why do they kill themselves? Like I said, if I found out I was gay I wouldn't kill myself. Why do those large numbers of gay Mormons kill themselves?

The idea here is that more gay LDS commit suicide then the general population. This is probably accurate, and I am sure they same could be said of other groups whom have very negative attitudes towards gays. It doesn't mean that every gay or straight person wants to commit suicide.

[_KevinSim]

Boyd Packer says he does not know among his fellow key holders who do WHAT? Nothing? No seeking the answer and unfolding the mysteries of eternity? Just dumb stones today, dumb stones tomorrow, dumb stones forever? And you hang on their every world huh? lol

I don't believe in the omniscience of God; why should I believe in the omniscience of God's apostles? They make it their business to find out what God has to tell them about the running of the LDS Church; what God tells them they act on; what God doesn't tell them of necessity is unclear to them. That does not mean they are not in a position to tell us what we need to know. God has told them everything that we need to know in our current stage of life.

Yes, I do "hang on their every" word; what alternative is there for someone committed to doing the will of God?