Gordon wrote:It was a test of obedience and faith. What better way to do that than with something one is uncomfortable with? It wouldn't have been much of a trial if the Lord had told Nephi to throw some magic dirt on Laban, which would have made him disappear (unbeknownst to Nephi).
Any "test of obedience" would be a personal one that would NOT violate the agency or right of self determination of any other individual.
What would happen if one of your ward members took a bat upside your head and then proudly proclaimed that it was his "test of obedience"?
SteelHead wrote:Gordon. You don't need to tell us LDS beliefs. We all know them. The majority of us are LDS, and those who aren't know the wacko doctrines. I have a current TR in my wallet.
Which is a sad fact...
But back to the topic at hand, did you say the kid was killed for the sins of the father (David)?
Have you ever read the Articles of Faith?
Like I said...the child wasn't punished for his parents' sin. David was punished by having his child taken from him. Furthermore, the AoF refer to spiritual punishment...you know, at the Judgement. I thought you knew LDS beliefs...?
"Wo unto them that are wise in their own eyes and prudent in their own sight!" Isaiah 5:21
Tchild wrote:But what we can NEVER know Gordon, is if God really ever has or will command a man to kill or murder. How can we know when it is the man doing the talking as if they were speaking or hearing God? Until God gets the word out unequivocally that it is his word, any action of man, is his alone to bear and God has nothing to do with it.
Otherwise, I expect that you will go to the Utah state prison and petition that Ron and Dan Lafferty be promptly released from prison because they were acting on God's orders when they killed Brenda Lafferty and her young child.
It is required of each of us to know whether or not things pertaining to the Gospel is from the Lord. We can know, by the power of the HG. This is part of the whole Plan of Salvation, and something each of us must do on our own. Just because you do not have an assurance, for yourself, does not mean you can tell me I don't, or can't.
"Wo unto them that are wise in their own eyes and prudent in their own sight!" Isaiah 5:21
Nephi had never shed blood, and shrank from it due to that fact. It doesn't say that he thought it was wrong, but rather, he eventually saw that it was necessary.
"Wo unto them that are wise in their own eyes and prudent in their own sight!" Isaiah 5:21
Tchild wrote:Any "test of obedience" would be a personal one that would NOT violate the agency or right of self determination of any other individual.
What would happen if one of your ward members took a bat upside your head and then proudly proclaimed that it was his "test of obedience"?
See where that leads?
But you take an actual all-knowing, just, and righteous god out of the equation.
Yes, there are numerous persons who do all sorts of evil in the name of "god", but that doesn't negate those who are actually instructed by Him.
Like I said, it was the Lord who decided that Laban's mortal life was to end, not Nephi. You can choose to accept that or reject it...but that choice does nothing to change the truth of the matter.
"Wo unto them that are wise in their own eyes and prudent in their own sight!" Isaiah 5:21
Gordon wrote:It is required of each of us to know whether or not things pertaining to the Gospel is from the Lord. We can know, by the power of the HG. This is part of the whole Plan of Salvation, and something each of us must do on our own. Just because you do not have an assurance, for yourself, does not mean you can tell me I don't, or can't.
Sure, that is why a "test of faith" cannot violate my or another's free agency.
Nephi telling us that he has been commanded to kill is not from God. At least that is what my concept of the HG tells me.
Confirming truth via the HG only works when that truth pertains to the individual alone.
SteelHead wrote:So why haven't you furthered the work of god by killing your own children before the age of accountability? They would be certified ck recipients.
It wouldn't be a punishment to them.
As tempting as that would be, it's not according to the Lord...He must have different plans for them.
"Wo unto them that are wise in their own eyes and prudent in their own sight!" Isaiah 5:21
