Laban's death defies logic and reality

[_just me]

I'm pretty sure that when I was studying this episode I learned that the Jews would have only kept their religious writing on scrolls and in Hebrew. These writing would have been kept in the temple and only accessed by the priests (Levites, I believe). Has anyone read different? (other than the Book of Mormon)

Not only would it have been illegal for Nephi to steal the religious writings it would have been impossible for him or his father to access the priesthood without breaking the Law. That means no sacrifices, no temple, etc.

[_Gordon]

I think it was mithril mail. +2.

Ah, yes...perhaps Zoram was really Hobbit.

[_Gordon]

How do you know it is the HG? Do you know everything the body and mind are capable of producing?

How do you know your reality really isn't just a dream...?

Row your boat Themis.

[_Bond James Bond]

I think it was mithril mail. +2.

Bilbo was given a shirt of mithril rings by Thorin Oakenshield. I didn't have the heart to tell him it was worth more than the whole of the Lamanite civilization.

[_Molok]

Err..Holding a passed out person's head up by the hair and chopping off their head with one handed blows is not quick and easy. It would take several strokes, and it would be much more likely to draw attention that simply choking him.

A very strong man (which the Book of Mormon states Nephi was) using a sharp sword would most likely be able to do it in one stroke.

No, Gordon. He wouldn't. If you don't believe me, I invite you to look up any of the many beheading videos of the Taliban on the internet. You know, the people who still chop off people's heads because they think God is telling them to. Do you think God is really telling them that by the way? And keep in mind, they're using machetes, which are much sharper than anything that would have been around in Book of Mormon times.

That's right! As we all know, blood simply wipes off. Definitely doesn't leave stains or anything like that. Well known fact. And it certainly doesn't smell. Nope. You have all your facts in order. LOL
Blood wipes off rather easily on metallic surfaces, if not dried...common knowledge. Also, blood smells like iron (because it has iron in it), which is metal (like the armor)...also a common fact.

Maybe a little blood would wipe off, but we're talking about bucketfuls, remember? And by the time you chopped off someone's head and steal their clothing, it defies imagination you could wipe their armor off. Of course, that says nothing about the blood on your face and hair and arms. Or the smell. Yeah, just choking the drunk person out would much faster and discrete. This story is just dumb.

[_Gordon]

So what. That's worth murdering a guy for?

And what kind of Prophet was Lehi that he didn't have a record of his own damn genealogy? Is it really credible to you that Lehi wouldn't have had a record of this on his own? Look at the genealogies in the Old and New Testaments. It's a couple pages of "begats..." Lehi couldn't have, at some point during his lifetime, you know, gone in and made a copy of that information?

But regardless of the excuses for why Lehi didn't have his own genealogical records, so freaking what? Why was this a death sentence for Laban?

You asked for a reason why those specific plates had to be obtained, and not some others. I answered.

It could be a possibility that Laban obtained them by devious means...

Nobody said anything about Walmart. Let's just say, for the sake of argument, that there were only a round dozen copies of this material in Jerusalem at the time. That still doesn't obviate my question, which was why it had to be, specifically, Laban's copy?

Nobody needed to mention Walmart...I did, being facetious in making a point.

I did, though, answer your query on why those specific plates...to which you replied "so what".

So, Nephi and his brothers go into Jerusalem, seek and an audience with Laban, and ask him for the records. He tells them to piss off. They go back and get all their family treasure and return to Laban and try to buy it off him. He takes their money and chases them off with his guards. So they go out into the desert and prepare to return to Lehi empty-handed. But no, Nephi knows that God, the creator of the entire universe, is able to get them Laban's copy of those records if only they have enough faith.

At no point do Nephi and the others consider going to some other source for the records. Maybe one of the synagogues has a copy, and they could break in and steal them. That's a lot less immoral than hacking a passed-out guy's head off for it. Maybe another rich guy, Schlomo or Binyamin, or Jehosephat or whoever has a copy they'd be willing to part with for the Lehite fortune. But no, they never, ever even consider it, at all. It's Laban's copy, or they return to Lehi empty-handed.

I think that's very unlikely. Sounds more like a made-up plotline in a story than a record of real people confronting a real problem and finding a real solution to it.

Laban's copy had Lehi's genealogy on them.

[_Themis]

How do you know it is the HG? Do you know everything the body and mind are capable of producing?

How do you know your reality really isn't just a dream...?

Row your boat Themis.

I don't in an absolute way, but you are dodging the question, which is a very reasonable question. What about the experience leads you to think you know it is accurate, and how do you know the body is not capable of producing the experience?

[_Gordon]

No, Gordon. He wouldn't. If you don't believe me, I invite you to look up any of the many beheading videos of the Taliban on the internet. You know, the people who still chop off people's heads because they think God is telling them to. Do you think God is really telling them that by the way? And keep in mind, they're using machetes, which are much sharper than anything that would have been around in Book of Mormon times.

No, I don't think G-d is telling them to. Yes, I have seen the videos, and they are skinny guys using dull knives, basically. You say they were sharp, did you get to examine them?

Maybe a little blood would wipe off, but we're talking about bucketfuls, remember? And by the time you chopped off someone's head and steal their clothing, it defies imagination you could wipe their armor off. Of course, that says nothing about the blood on your face and hair and arms. Or the smell. Yeah, just choking the drunk person out would much faster and discrete. This story is just dumb.

You can wipe off alot of blood from metal easily if it's not dried. You might not get that much blood on you if you made one swip and stepped away. It's really not some impossible deed that is being suggested here. The story is quite plausible.

[_Gordon]

I don't in an absolute way, but you are dodging the question, which is a very reasonable question. What about the experience leads you to think you know it is accurate, and how do you know the body is not capable of producing the experience?

I'm not dodging, because I already answered. The only knew aspect you have introduced is the implication that my body/mind made it all up...to which I addressed. Your answer leaves us on different premises, making further advancement in discussion on this issue difficult.

[_Molok]

No, I don't think G-d is telling them to. Yes, I have seen the videos, and they are skinny guys using dull knives, basically. You say they were sharp, did you get to examine them?

You do realize any of those "skinny guys" are much bigger in stature than anyone would have been a thousand years ago, right? As far as dull knives go, I assure you that they were much sharper than anything anyone in the bronze age would have been using.