Laban's death defies logic and reality

[_Racer]

Err..Holding a passed out person's head up by the hair and chopping off their head with one handed blows is not quick and easy. It would take several strokes, and it would be much more likely to draw attention that simply choking him.

A very strong man (which the Book of Mormon states Nephi was) using a sharp sword would most likely be able to do it in one stroke.

That's right! As we all know, blood simply wipes off. Definitely doesn't leave stains or anything like that. Well known fact. And it certainly doesn't smell. Nope. You have all your facts in order. LOL

Blood wipes off rather easily on metallic surfaces, if not dried...common knowledge. Also, blood smells like iron (because it has iron in it), which is metal (like the armor)...also a common fact.

I don't recall the Book of Mormon saying what Laban's armor was made of. Maybe it was leather. Why would Laban carry a fine steel sword with a golden hilt and yet gird his loins with ghetto iron armor? Wouldn't he be sporting some fine polished steel armor?

Why would Laban be totally drunk and dressed in battle regalia in the middle of the night? Wouldn't he be wearing something more light weight and relaxing?

[_just me]

I don't recall the Book of Mormon saying what Laban's armor was made of. Maybe it was leather. Why would Laban carry a fine steel sword with a golden hilt and yet gird his loins with ghetto iron armor? Wouldn't he be sporting some fine polished steel armor?

Why would Laban be totally drunk and dressed in battle regalia in the middle of the night? Wouldn't he be wearing something more light weight and relaxing?

Toga! Toga! Toga!

[_Themis]

I don't in an absolute way, but you are dodging the question, which is a very reasonable question. What about the experience leads you to think you know it is accurate, and how do you know the body is not capable of producing the experience?

I'm not dodging, because I already answered. The only knew aspect you have introduced is the implication that my body/mind made it all up...to which I addressed. Your answer leaves us on different premises, making further advancement in discussion on this issue difficult.

It does make it difficult, just as it is difficult if not impossible to know your body is not creating the experience. It's a major issue I find many don't want to think about. You would think if one has the truth as important to them they would want to think about it just a little.

[_Racer]

Why did Nephi have to break several Laws in order to preserve the Law among his people when God could have revealed them through REVELATION?

First off, G-d is above His laws for Man, and second, I'm sure He could have revealed them by revelation, but that takes away Nephi's trial of faith. Abraham was tested in a smiliar manner...much worse, though, because it was his righteous son. LDS believe we are on this earth to prove obedience.


Abraham 3:25

"And we will prove them herewith, to see if they will do all things whatsoever the Lord their God shall command them;"

So, if some guy in 2012 chopped off the head of a fellow citizen claiming God told him to do it, we should give him the benefit of the doubt? Who are we to question what God told this guy to do? Since God is above the laws of man we shouldn't judge the murderer too harshly. After all, God put him in a tight spot, but at least he was refined in the refiner's fire and will be a more valiant servant of God at the expense of the victim. We should chalk it up to collateral damage in the Lord's quest to further his cause.

[_Cicero]

Abraham 3:25

"And we will prove them herewith, to see if they will do all things whatsoever the Lord their God shall command them;"

Gordon is right, of course, about what the Church teaches regarding obedience. Elder Maxwell spoke of this often. I recall him saying on numerous occasions that the only thing that we can give God that He does not already have is our own will. This life is about learning to submit our will to that of God.

It all sounds fine and dandy until you start to really think about the question: "And how exactly do we know what God's will is?"

Typical answer: "Prophets"
Response: "Ah, right . . . well, you see, there are a lot of prophets out there. How do I know which one to follow?"
Typical answer: "By their fruits, ye shall know them"
Response: "Err, OK, but what does that really mean exactly?"
Typical answer: "Well, if you look at Joseph Smith compared to other religious leaders, there really is no comparison; I mean, just look at what he did? He actually brought forth new scriptures! And he even says that we can all talk to God and find out the truth too! Who else has done that?"
Response: "Muhammad?"
Typical answer: "Yeah, well maybe Muhammad was partially inspired . . . every religion has some truth in it after all."
Response: "Yeah, but Muhammad claimed that there was only one God and that he was his true prophet?"
Typical answer: "Please, this is the religion that is out there today inspiring people to fly airplanes into office towers and cut people's heads off because they are sinful infidels . . ."
Response: "Hmmm"

[_Gordon]

You do realize any of those "skinny guys" are much bigger in stature than anyone would have been a thousand years ago, right? As far as dull knives go, I assure you that they were much sharper than anything anyone in the bronze age would have been using.

CFR

[_Gordon]

I don't recall the Book of Mormon saying what Laban's armor was made of. Maybe it was leather. Why would Laban carry a fine steel sword with a golden hilt and yet gird his loins with ghetto iron armor? Wouldn't he be sporting some fine polished steel armor?

First, you're assuming, and second, you contradicted yourself.

Why would Laban be totally drunk and dressed in battle regalia in the middle of the night? Wouldn't he be wearing something more light weight and relaxing?

People do strange things when they are drunk...

[_Gordon]

It does make it difficult, just as it is difficult if not impossible to know your body is not creating the experience. It's a major issue I find many don't want to think about. You would think if one has the truth as important to them they would want to think about it just a little.

Oh, I've thought about it. However, if I can't be sure of such experiences, and all that entailed regarding those events, then I can't be sure about anything. I might as well just lie in a ditch, and wait for whatever's going to actually happen, happen.

[_Gordon]

So, if some guy in 2012 chopped off the head of a fellow citizen claiming God told him to do it, we should give him the benefit of the doubt? Who are we to question what God told this guy to do? Since God is above the laws of man we shouldn't judge the murderer too harshly. After all, God put him in a tight spot, but at least he was refined in the refiner's fire and will be a more valiant servant of God at the expense of the victim. We should chalk it up to collateral damage in the Lord's quest to further his cause.

No. We have been given the ability to judge righteously, and a source for knowing truth. We don't just take one's word for it.

[_Gordon]

It all sounds fine and dandy until you start to really think about the question: "And how exactly do we know what God's will is?"

John 14:26