Was there a Gold Bible Company conspiracy?

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_Uncle Dale
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Re: Was there a Gold Bible Company conspiracy?

Post by _Uncle Dale »

DrW wrote:...

Thanks. But your response leaves me a bit confused.

As you know, "accepted for publication" normally means that a manuscript has been submitted, peer reviewed and approved for publication by the journal editor (often pending a few minor fixes by the author(s)).

At this point, the editor often schedules the paper for an upcoming issue and advises the author(s) to return the ms with edits (or sometimes even marked up galleys) by a certain date if they wish to make it into that issue.

In Episode 2, it states that the 2010 work I referred to by Jockers had been accepted for publication and would appear in 2012. I assume that if they had an accepted ms with a 2012 publication date, they were at least this far along in the process.


You'd have to contact either Jockers or Criddle about that item.
My understanding is that a paper on the Doctrine & Covenants
texts, compared to the writings of various early Mormons, was
under preparation, but has yet to be published. That's all I know.

Beyond that D&C textual analysis, I know of no other paper on
this topic currently under review anywhere.

Is that now not the case?

Has the paper appeared in print already?

If not, has Jockers lost interest in the subject area to the point that he will not even go to the trouble of doing the revisions on an accepted ms? (Hard to imagine for an active academic.)

What am I missing here?


If the D&C (Book of Commandments, actually) paper has been published,
I have not seen it.

All I have is anecdotal information, which may or may not be correct.
A certain message board poster obtained and divulged the contents
of private e-mails composed by Jockers, which drew the ire of a
certain LDS academic. I think at that point Jockers decided to let
others carry on the textual analysis work and relieve himself of the
proffered professional label of "vicious anti-Mormon," etc.

As I mentioned, he has been teaching classes in computerized textual
analysis methodology for authorship determination in California. As far
as I can understand, THAT is the way in which he is most comfortable
in discovering/communicating new studies information, revisions, etc.

I would not be surprised to see one of his students publish a paper
on Book of Mormon authorship in the future, and perhaps thus offer
some additional data which is not yet in print.

I wish I knew more -- but I've purposely maintained a certain amount
of "distance" from the Jockers-Criddle textual studies. I am interested,
but hope to preserve enough objectivity that I can offer meaningful
criticism at some future point.

UD
-- the discovery never seems to stop --
_aussieguy55
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Re: Was there a Gold Bible Company conspiracy?

Post by _aussieguy55 »

Hilary Clinton " I won the places that represent two-thirds of America's GDP.I won in places are optimistic diverse, dynamic, moving forward"
_Uncle Dale
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Re: Was there a Gold Bible Company conspiracy?

Post by _Uncle Dale »

aussieguy55 wrote:Uncle Dale

Have you seen this paper?
http://www.physics.smu.edu/scalise/P333 ... metric.pdf



Yes -- but I've lost the pdf file that held the entire paper.
Criddle references Holmes a couple of times. I get the impression
that he would like to open up a conversation with the guy --
but perhaps Holmes has retired from active professional life.

I would really, really welcome seeing an objective outsider compile
a book outlining (and detailing) the various computerized studies
of the Book of Mormon text that have been produced.

Probably we'll first of all have to see another handful of professional
papers published, before anybody decides to publish that overview.

UD

ps: Do you have the full Holmes paper's text, that you could give me
in pdf form?
-- the discovery never seems to stop --
_Phaedrus Ut
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Re: Was there a Gold Bible Company conspiracy?

Post by _Phaedrus Ut »

Uncle Dale wrote:]
I get the impression that he would like to open up a conversation with the guy -- but perhaps Holmes has retired from active professional life.


I exchanged a few emails with David Holmes back in 2006 and he told me he has avoided that topic since because of the unpleasantness that came from the BYU people.

I know he's likely seen the Criddle paper because I sent it to him back in 2008.


Phaedrus
_Uncle Dale
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Re: Was there a Gold Bible Company conspiracy?

Post by _Uncle Dale »

Phaedrus Ut wrote:...
because of the unpleasantness that came from the BYU people.
...


Well, that's understandable. I suppose we might expect the same
sort of "unpleasantness" if we were to do some authorship studies
on "Battlefield Earth" that served to endanger the peace, well
being, and livelihood of officials in the Church of Scientology.

In 1982 I made pretty much the same decision -- and was only
drawn back into these investigations after several years of
disinterest in encountering any more "unpleasantness" myself.

UD
-- the discovery never seems to stop --
_MCB
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Re: Was there a Gold Bible Company conspiracy?

Post by _MCB »

A certain message board poster obtained and divulged the contents of private e-mails composed by Jockers, which drew the ire of a certain LDS academic. I think at that point Jockers decided to let others carry on the textual analysis work and relieve himself of the proffered professional label of "vicious anti-Mormon," etc.
I think Matthew Jockers stepped into the subject not knowing what a fire-storm it would produce. Craig did not inform him about the fact that some people live and breathe the Book of Mormon as sacred scripture, perhaps as more sacred than the Bible. Anything which would challenge their belief that it was produced by the hand of God is blasphemy to them. Perhaps in contrast to the fact that objective scholarly study of the Bible continues with new insights into its meanings and origins.

When I started out with the Norse origins of some of the story, I was amazed at the resistance to the idea. They just can't accept anything different from what they have been taught.
Huckelberry said:
I see the order and harmony to be the very image of God which smiles upon us each morning as we awake.

http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/a ... cc_toc.htm
_MCB
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Re: Was there a Gold Bible Company conspiracy?

Post by _MCB »

ps: Do you have the full Holmes paper's text, that you could give me in pdf form?
Me, too.
Huckelberry said:
I see the order and harmony to be the very image of God which smiles upon us each morning as we awake.

http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/a ... cc_toc.htm
_Uncle Dale
_Emeritus
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Re: Was there a Gold Bible Company conspiracy?

Post by _Uncle Dale »

Uncle Dale wrote:...
Here's a larger version of the same chart:
http://premormon.com/resources/r001/Slide04-003big.jpg


I've combined some of Criddle's graphics and data into two
composite charts:

Image
Here's a larger version of the same chart:
http://premormon.com/images/fig1-big.gif

Image
Here's a larger version of the same chart:
http://premormon.com/images/fig0-big.gif

UD
-- the discovery never seems to stop --
_robuchan
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Re: Was there a Gold Bible Company conspiracy?

Post by _robuchan »

When will the Gold Bible Company episode 4 be up?
_Uncle Dale
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Re: Was there a Gold Bible Company conspiracy?

Post by _Uncle Dale »

robuchan wrote:When will the Gold Bible Company episode 4 be up?


If I understand correctly, it is already "up" -- but some
last minute adjustments need to be made before part 4
becomes accessible in our web browsers.

I'm guessing by Friday.

Dale
-- the discovery never seems to stop --
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