Laban's death defies logic and reality

[_Drifting]

Can internal feelings not come in all types and intensities? Many of which we have yet to experience.

I'm sure they can. However, what are the odds, that an overwhelming minority (an oxymoron...?) has these same rare intense feelings associated with one particular aspect of life?

The problem being, no two experiences are the same.
What you describe as a witness (burning from within) is not something that Dallin H Oaks has stated he has experienced. In fact, the Apostle specifically stated that he has NOT experienced a strong burning sensation, more of a calm feeling that comes over him.

Which one of you (Gordon the poster or Dallin the Apostle) is describing accurately how the Holy Ghost works?

This may be one of the most important and misunderstood teachings in all the Doctrine and Covenants. The teachings of the Spirit often come as feelings. That fact is of the utmost importance, yet some misunderstand what it means. I have met persons who told me they have never had a witness from the Holy Ghost because they have never felt their bosom “burn within” them.

What does a “burning in the bosom” mean? Does it need to be a feeling of caloric heat, like the burning produced by combustion? If that is the meaning, I have never had a burning in the bosom. Surely, the word “burning” in this scripture signifies a feeling of comfort and serenity. That is the witness many receive. That is the way revelation works.

Truly, the still, small voice is just that, “still” and “small.”

Teaching and Learning by the Spirit

Oaks statements seem to indicate that you've been tricked Gordon....

[_PrickKicker]

Ok if we are going to talk about feelings,
How's this...

When I read the Book of Mormon and the story of Nephi slaying Laban, I felt sick to my stomach, I feel like I have witnessed a murder! something truly heinous, not right, wrong, bad, evil.
The feeling you get when watching a scary movie or coming home from work to find your house has been burgled.

I read the story of Ammon from the Book of Mormon reader to my 8 year old child and you could see the look on his face, he too knew that it was evil and scary, he said I don't want you to read me stuff like that anymore.

Its funny and hypocritical the censorship of the church no 15+ movies, and yet the Bible and Book of Mormon are full of some of the sickest stories I have ever heard.

Adam and Eve covering their sins, deception.
Cain slaying Abel.
Lot and his daughters.
Elias and the she bears.
Collecting their enemies foreskins.
killing you enemies because they don't believe what you do.
The list is endless.

Throw in the odd... Thus saith the Lord and it's all O.K.

I don't believe in the Holy Ghoul, but I felt an emotional response that what I was reading something that was morally and ethically wrong, I have had that same feeling whenever someone tries to talk me into something I don't want to do.

As a missionary I got that feeling whenever I taught anyone about the church, I realized pretty quick it was a combination of emotional and psychological, nervous energy and nothing to do with any ghosties, its the same as walking up to a total stranger and asking them to pick up the trash you have just seen them throw on the floor. You know what you are doing is right in your mind, so you do it, but you are unsure of how it will be received, whether your are going to have to fight or run for your life, or whether that person will listen to your instructions and will accepted or rejected them, then there is the added excitement of getting the baptism and that is all. JWs, Evangelicals, and salesmen all have the same feelings inside of them, where as the Mormons think for some reason that these feelings are exclusive to them and that only they can have it.

How can it be a constant companion? if the spirit being has form, it is limited to be in one place at a time, so the concept is nonsense as with all the other Doctrines of the church.

[_Chap]

Surely, the word “burning” in this scripture signifies a feeling of comfort and serenity.

In other words, it doesn't mean "burning". Gottit. Isn't continuous revelation marvellous?

by the way, what do "comfort and serenity" mean? Surely in this article they mean just accepting whatever you are told by your priesthood leaders and switching your brain off.

[_Drifting]

Surely, the word “burning” in this scripture signifies a feeling of comfort and serenity.

In other words, it doesn't mean "burning". Gottit. Isn't continuous revelation marvellous?

by the way, what do "comfort and serenity" mean? Surely in this article they mean just accepting whatever you are told by your priesthood leaders and switching your brain off.

That's correct.
According to an Apostles words published in an official Church publication (meaning it is doctrine) the 'burning in the bosom' is not a burning sensation in the bosom.

[_Themis]

by the way, what do "comfort and serenity" mean?

It means those mourning's you wake up and realize you get to sleep in.

[_Spektical]

I've had experiences where one feels warm (more like a heat patch, but not hot), while the other is cold (more like the vapor rub). I used the Vapor Rub to try to describe the distinct warmth/burning, but not being hot. Like just me described, it's a comforting feeling. The other, as you describe (which I have had too), comes with an empty feeling. They are similar in ways, but distinct.

How do you know you're not simply biologically wired in a particular way that makes you more sensitive to these types of sensations, while others are not? (Key word: "know")

I ascribe them to a specific source, because they have always occurred during incidents regarding religious matters (intended or not). They don't happen when I'm just sitting there eating a hoggie thinking about fixing my clutch cable.

The feelings you get, no matter how powerful or serene, do not unambiguously state some proposition; you are left to attach some significance to them. This reflective and interpretive process is what undercuts your claims to knowledge. The best you can claim is faith/belief, not knowledge.

I'm sure they can. However, what are the odds, that an overwhelming minority (an oxymoron...?) has these same rare intense feelings associated with one particular aspect of life?

Again, is there any way for you to know (or show) that these experiences are all coming from God, rather than from a similar/shared biological disposition?

While such experiences (witnesses) are definitely not exclusive to the LDS, in my experience, the majority of other religious adherents do not claim them.

Please share with us the experience you've had that allowed you to statistically evaluate the claims of a majority of other religious adherents. Also, please define "religious adherents" so that we can agree on an apples-to-apples comparison.

[_Mooseman]

THE HOLY GHOST FOR DUMMIES

The gospel of Jesus Christ affords the gift and power of the Holy Ghost. The gift means that you are hooked up, plugged in, and the degree of warmth, comfort, pure knowledge, word of the Lord, rebukes, preaching, exhortation, expounding, unfolding, miracles, healing, prophecy heightens the intensity of the base line residual that you feel and know constantly streams the love of God that abides in your heart. This residual is more like a clean conduit opened in your heart. As if a breeze blows through it drafting from eternal realms. You do not have a constant burning in you bosom as much as a feeling of attachment.

This is an abiding earnest of salvation, meaning one knows that they are saved in the Celestial Kingdom of Heaven. Lacking this knowledge means that you do not know the Lord and he is not in you, you are not one with Christ in God, your heart has not been purified by the regeneration of the new creature begotten of God's power, you have not received the gospel and your faith is still weak, absent, misdirected and hypocrite if you think otherwise. You are not of the truth and what ever you suppose is going on with you it is not the gospel of Jesus Christ.

What it constantly feels like having the gift and power of the Holy Ghost is not what bad guessers imagine. The burning in the bosom is a heightened degree of intensity when streaming truth or knowledge like the connection is heating up. The power of the Holy Ghost is when you are under its full influence and you speak and do what is given to you as if you are subject to a remote operator working through you. This is a rare occurrence that does not override your free will. You are fully aware that you can shut it down if you choose to.

It is NOT as Elder Oaks wrongly assumes any earnest of pride and lifting up above all people and nations of the whole earth. This is the superiority of vaunting arrogance at work. There is NEVER a feeling of self justification but rather always a meekness and abject unworthiness that insulates the heart surrounding this connection.

He called it 'comfort and serenity', which is hypocrite-speak for pride and arrogance. Actually comfort is fine but serenity is not. Since he used serenity what he means by comfort is highly suspect as well.
Serenity is taking your rest, being at ease, and betrays the anxiousness of being connected to a higher power. How can you be placid with that? You cannot. With great and swelling pride and arrogance you can be at ease in perfect self deception. See what I mean?

Having put your hand to the plow, and taken the bit in your teeth, and subjecting yourself to the living God at all hazard sort of leaves the doors and windows open to uncertainty. It is being much more alive and vital than the laid back hillbilly sloth of hypocrisy.

So a meekness continues waiting upon the Lord and the disturbing of the waters knowing that you cannot anticipate the will of the Lord and being ready regardless and awake and alive is the big difference between the dead and the living. That is why the LDS just plod along and nothing new hardly occurs except an occasional accommodation because all the work is done. Assumed done as good as anyone should expect. Heck, ain't nobody perfect. Come on Jed, just sit a spell, and take a load off, you too Zeb. No worries Ma, all is well, yeah, we prosper.

Prosper because their hearts are set upon the things of this world and there anxious best is put towards that end. Mormonism is truly Kool-Aid in the shade to take your ease and love and be loved. Ya all come back next week, ya hear?

[_Chap]

Mooseman, you are Nightlion, aren't you?

Come on now. You know you are not allowed to lie in response to a direct question like that. Yes or no?

[_Sethbag]

Can internal feelings not come in all types and intensities? Many of which we have yet to experience.

I'm sure they can. However, what are the odds, that an overwhelming minority (an oxymoron...?) has these same rare intense feelings associated with one particular aspect of life?

I'm not sure I get your point. Are you asserting that a small number of people having similar intense feelings associated with a particular aspect of life makes it more believable that they experienced something supernatural? Am I misunderstanding you?

[_sock puppet]

Can internal feelings not come in all types and intensities? Many of which we have yet to experience.

I'm sure they can. However, what are the odds, that an overwhelming minority (an oxymoron...?) has these same rare intense feelings associated with one particular aspect of life?

I'm not sure I get your point. Are you asserting that a small number of people having similar intense feelings associated with a particular aspect of life makes it more believable that they experienced something supernatural? Am I misunderstanding you?

I like how you are closing that loop around his neck.