Evangelical's Struggle to Address Premarital Sex & Abortion

[_Drifting]

Have you ever heard of faith, Drifting? The scriptures tell a lot about it.

Thanks for reinforcing the point I was making.

[_gdemetz]

Drifting you should know that the scriptures state that without faith it is impossible to please God, and you should also know that we were sent to this earth to see how we would act away from the presence of God. That is a test for us, and I would ask how you and others think they are doing on this exam?

[_just me]

Drifting you should know that the scriptures state that without faith it is impossible to please God, and you should also know that we were sent to this earth to see how we would act away from the presence of God. That is a test for us, and I would ask how you and others think they are doing on this exam?

I already finished my test. I passed with flying colors.

[_sock puppet]

Drifting you should know that the scriptures state that without faith it is impossible to please God, and you should also know that we were sent to this earth to see how we would act away from the presence of God. That is a test for us, and I would ask how you and others think they are doing on this exam?

Why is a being that KNOWS everything only pleased with us if we will act on a hope, in the absence of KNOWLEDGE?

[_Sethbag]

Drifting you should know that the scriptures state that without faith it is impossible to please God, and you should also know that we were sent to this earth to see how we would act away from the presence of God. That is a test for us, and I would ask how you and others think they are doing on this exam?

Why is a being that KNOWS everything only pleased with us if we will act on a hope, in the absence of KNOWLEDGE?

Because the believers can't offer up knowledge, but they still want to feel like they've done a smart thing by continuing to believe. So faith is made to seem all important. That's pretty much it.

[_gdemetz]

If you guys have kids, will you keep them at home with you forever, or will you let them go out on their own to live and learn? Unfortunately, it takes some much longer to learn how to live correctly then others, and some seem to never learn.

[_just me]

If you guys have kids, will you keep them at home with you forever, or will you let them go out on their own to live and learn? Unfortunately, it takes some much longer to learn how to live correctly then others, and some seem to never learn.

What is "living correctly?"

I'm pretty sure the vast majority of Americans (and citizens of the world) are law abiding members of their communities. Yay!

[_gdemetz]

That is a good question, Just Me! I am still in the process of trying to do just that! However, I think Christ summed it up (as others also have done via the light of Christ) when He stated that one should love the Lord God with all of his heart (and others also stated similar to this next part) and his fellow man as himself.

[_Darth J]

Gdemetz, in my experience of representing a party in many, many, many divorces, I have never once encountered a married couple that was splitting up because their sex life was too satisfying.

Darth, that was not my point. Sex is great in it's proper time and place and with the proper person. However, when it is not, it can and often does lead to big trouble. That's why commandments regarding sex were given; not to bind us, but to help us be happier.

No, gdemetz. I've never known anyone whose sex life was made better by obeying the taboos and neuroses of a geriatric oligarchy who thinks that the random thoughts in their heads are revelations from God. However, I have known many people---and represented many clients---whose marriages and sex lives were unfulfilling because they believed that the Bretheren's attempts to micromanage their sex lives would magically make married life a state of heaven on earth. The LDS Church actively teaches a prudish, neurotic outlook toward sexuality between married partners. That attitude does not make people happier. From a previous thread:

Instead, get married too young, preferably right off your mission, to any random active believer (since there are no such things as soulmates) so that you can have sex. Then you can look forward to a life of dissatisfaction and neurosis about sexuality as you assume that sex means "insert tab A into slot B" and that, per the counsel of church leaders, husbands and wives should not do anything "unnatural."

Teachings of Presidents of the Church: Spencer W. Kimball
“Chapter 17: The Law of Chastity”

Even though sex can be an important and satisfactory part of married life, we must remember that life is not designed just for sex.

The union of the sexes, husband and wife (and only husband and wife), was for the principal purpose of bringing children into the world. Sexual experiences were never intended by the Lord to be a mere plaything or merely to satisfy passions and lusts. We know of no directive from the Lord that proper sexual experience between husbands and wives need be limited totally to the procreation of children, but we find much evidence from Adam until now that no provision was ever made by the Lord for indiscriminate sex.

Notice that sex "can" be an important and satisfactory part of married life, not "is."

Spencer J. Condie
July 1986 Ensign

Unfortunately, some couples fail to realize that “sexual experiences were never intended by the Lord to be a mere plaything or merely to satisfy passions and lusts.” When couples engage in physical intimacy devoid of emotional and spiritual intimacy, or when they participate in unholy practices, what should be a spiritually bonding element in their marriage may actually become a disruptive force.

Russell M. Nelson
May 2006 Ensign

Marriage is both a commandment and an exalting principle of the gospel. Because it is ordained of God, the intimate physical expressions of married love are sacred. Yet all too commonly, these divine gifts are desecrated. If a couple allows lewd language or pornography to corrupt their intimacy, they offend their Creator while they degrade and diminish their own divine gifts.

And here's a book that's not an official publication of the Church. It's just teachings of a president of the Church, published by a company owned by the Church, sold in stores owned by the Church, and quoted repeatedly in an official church manual:

Teachings of Spencer W. Kimball, pages 311-312

Sexual relations in marriage are not unrestrained. Even though sex can be an important and satisfactory part of married life, we must remember that life is not designed just for sex. Even marriage does not make proper certain extremes in sexual indulgence. To the Ephesian saints Paul begged for propriety in marriage: "So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself." (Ephesians 5:28.) And the Lord's condemnation included secret sexual sins in marriage, when he said: "And those who are not pure, and have said they were pure, shall be destroyed, saith the Lord God." (D&C 132:52)"
If it is unnatural, you just don't do it. That is all, and all the family life should be kept clean and worthy and on a very high plane. There are some people who have said that behind the bedroom doors anything goes. That is not true and the Lord would not condone it.

[_Drifting]

If you guys have kids, will you keep them at home with you forever, or will you let them go out on their own to live and learn? Unfortunately, it takes some much longer to learn how to live correctly then others, and some seem to never learn.

What is "living correctly?"

I'm pretty sure the vast majority of Americans (and citizens of the world) are law abiding members of their communities. Yay!

Gdemetz, will you be telling your kids who they should marry and what is acceptable and what is not acceptable in the bedroom?