This needs its own thread - Mormon Think -Daily Beast

[_Cicero]

It's currently the most popular story on Daily Beast.

I may have a minority view on this here, but I've never seen Mormon Think as a place that "welcomes scholarly debate about the religion’s history from both critics and true believers." It is a critical site. Now they do include apologetic arguments on their sites and critical responses to them, which is why I think it is the best critical site out there, but that is what it is. I don't know Twede or anyone else really involved in the site, but I have to say I am not really sure how honorable his intentions were in returning to church and blogging about it. Again, I really don't know this for certain, but it looks to me like Twede set a trap for the Church and they walked right into it.

[_Infymus]

I think the title here is a bit misleading. Going after him because he is critical of Romney? Not really - more like he had material about the Mormon temple on the site - and they didn't like that. I think the Romney angle is to attract attention to the matter.

On Sept 20th, MormonThinker wrote:

"This editor initially discussed MT content with his leaders, about our goal of promoting true church history over commonly-held beliefs and even how he was involved. He was willing to work with his stake president’s objections and he convinced the MT editorial board to take down the temple section as it greatly bothered some members. He also continued asking his stake president what was incorrect with the site. He offered to change it but his leader would never answer specifics, just labeling the site as ‘anti-Mormon’, anti-Joseph Smith and anti-church leadership. "

See http://www.mormoncurtain.com/index.html#pub_131599573

So I'm not entirely convinced about the Romney angle. Still it is getting attention and any attention is good attention, I suppose.

[_Aristotle Smith]

I don't think this story is going anywhere.

First, they put it out on Friday. That's trash day for big news organizations. It could have been worse, they could have released it Friday afternoon.

Another problem is that everyone is now giving this a mostly political spin. It's not critique against the LDS church that is the issue, but rather somehow tying Mitt Romney into the criticism. So now you have the left leaning Daily Beast writing something to be critical of Mitt Romney, who cares.

But because it is mostly being played as a political issue, you lose all chances of doing something either religious or political. TBMs (who are mostly Republican) can now write off MormonThink as unworthy of note, because it's just those apostate lefties doing what they always do. If you wanted to do something political, you just lost the one group who might have been influenced by this: conservative Evangelical Christians. For the most part that group is going to plug their nose at Romney's Mormonism and pull the "R" lever in the voting booth. But, if the story was about how the LDS church stifles debate and free speech in religious issues, you might have gotten some of them to notice, because that's something that group does care about.

However, I think this also just played into Romney's hands. Look, Mitt ain't going to criticize the LDS church. If he is put into a situation where the best PR move is to criticize the LDS church he is going to crap his pants. By making this whole thing political, he can now just say something like, "I respect Mr. Twede's right to disagree with my candidacy and I would hope that local LDS officials will do the same." End of story, Romney ends up looking good and never has to criticize the LDS church or focus on any of its doctrines. This is assuming of course that the story rises to the level of requiring Romney to address it.

[_sock puppet]

I don't think this story is going anywhere.

First, they put it out on Friday. That's trash day for big news organizations. It could have been worse, they could have released it Friday afternoon.

Another problem is that everyone is now giving this a mostly political spin. It's not critique against the LDS church that is the issue, but rather somehow tying Mitt Romney into the criticism. So now you have the left leaning Daily Beast writing something to be critical of Mitt Romney, who cares.

But because it is mostly being played as a political issue, you lose all chances of doing something either religious or political. TBMs (who are mostly Republican) can now write off MormonThink as unworthy of note, because it's just those apostate lefties doing what they always do. If you wanted to do something political, you just lost the one group who might have been influenced by this: conservative Evangelical Christians. For the most part that group is going to plug their nose at Romney's Mormonism and pull the "R" lever in the voting booth. But, if the story was about how the LDS church stifles debate and free speech in religious issues, you might have gotten some of them to notice, because that's something that group does care about.

However, I think this also just played into Romney's hands. Look, Mitt ain't going to criticize the LDS church. If he is put into a situation where the best PR move is to criticize the LDS church he is going to crap his pants. By making this whole thing political, he can now just say something like, "I respect Mr. Twede's right to disagree with my candidacy and I would hope that local LDS officials will do the same." End of story, Romney ends up looking good and never has to criticize the LDS church or focus on any of its doctrines. This is assuming of course that the story rises to the level of requiring Romney to address it.

"Local" LDS officials. There's the rub in my view. Twede mentions two "Church executives" without identifying their exact titles/positions. He did not refrain from specifying the bishop and SP, but the two "Church executives". It would be interesting to know if two of the Brethren were on travel in Florida in that timeframe.

[_Equality]

Roger Ebert has tweeted a link to the article. 717,000 followers.

The timing sure seems suspicious. MT has been around for years, with lots of articles critical to the church, and the church never lifted a finger against this guy. He puts up something critical of Romney and the church's political involvement, and bam, all of a sudden they are bullying him behind closed doors and scheduling a church court. Obviously, there is probably a lot more to the story, but the coincidental timing does not look good for the church.

[_MsJack]

I agree with Cicero. I like MormonThink, but I like it as a site that is critical of Mormonism, that challenges core Mormon beliefs. It is not simply some neutral site dedicated to educating people on "true" Mormon history and I would never treat it that way. Topics are selected for articles based on how devastating those issues are to core Mormon truth claims. If a subject isn't seen as being devastating to Mormon truth claims, then it isn't included for discussion. (The exception seems to be Twede's relatively recent activism against Mitt Romney, inspired by the current political season.)

I find The Daily Beast article extremely misleading, as it tries to suggest that Twede is being disciplined for criticizing Mitt Romney. We all know that's nonsense. He's being disciplined for deconstructing core Mormon beliefs and encouraging others to question those beliefs, and for posting about temple content. "Apostasy" is a pretty appropriate word for it. If he were running a site exclusively dedicated to criticism of Mitt Romney, there's no way he'd be getting summoned to a court of love. (If that were the case, Harry Reid would have been hauled in months ago.)

None of this means that I think it's a good idea to excommunicate Twede, nor do approve of attempts to coerce MT editors into shutting the site down. I even agree that Mormonism should take a "big tent" approach to its membership. But I don't think any religion is under obligation to open its tent so wide that it includes those who are actively seeking to get others to stop believing in said religion.

Like I said above, I like MT. When I first discovered the site three years ago, I sent its editors some very complimentary comments. I admit though, my respect for them is beginning to take a dive as a result of all this. They are not just some neutral site dedicated to educating people on Mormon history. They need to lay their cards on the table and own up to what they are, and then proceed to negotiate from there.

And if they are willingly allowing the media to craft this disingenuous narrative of persecution for criticizing Romney (as it appears they are), then my respect for them is really about to fall into the toilet.

[_Yahoo Bot]

Roger Ebert has tweeted a link to the article. 717,000 followers.

The timing sure seems suspicious. MT has been around for years, with lots of articles critical to the church, and the church never lifted a finger against this guy. He puts up something critical of Romney and the church's political involvement, and bam, all of a sudden they are bullying him behind closed doors and scheduling a church court. Obviously, there is probably a lot more to the story, but the coincidental timing does not look good for the church.

I agree with Ms. Jack that the Daily Beast's characterization is totally misleading.

I'm no fan of Romney, even though he is my second cousin. But the linked article traduces the way the Mormon church intrudes into politics rather than criticizes Romney for being a puppet of Pres. Monson.

[_angsty]

Roger Ebert has tweeted a link to the article. 717,000 followers.
The timing sure seems suspicious. MT has been around for years, with lots of articles critical to the church, and the church never lifted a finger against this guy. He puts up something critical of Romney and the church's political involvement, and bam, all of a sudden they are bullying him behind closed doors and scheduling a church court. Obviously, there is probably a lot more to the story, but the coincidental timing does not look good for the church.

Agreed -- between this and the suspicious timing of the get-out-the-vote initiative in Nevada, it's hard not to see smoke-- whether it's there or not. I do think it's inaccurate to characterize this as a knee-jerk reaction out of concern for Romney's prospects, but it's a very easy spin.

And it is so badly-played for the church to react to this right now. Isn't this supposed to be the "Mormon Moment"? Wouldn't they be better served by appearing to be too focused on Christ to get their panties in a twist about something like this?

I get that the church is very much run as a business, and they seem to be good at making money, but they seem to have very little understanding of how PR works, and how bungling things like this diminishes their brand and makes them appear to be petty, patriarchal, authoritarian, whiney-bitchy-babies. Come to think of it, they seem to have a lot in common with the Romney campaign.

[_Stormy Waters]

And if they are willingly allowing the media to craft this disingenuous narrative of persecution for criticizing Romney (as it appears they are), then my respect for them is really about to fall into the toilet.

I think the reality is that the general public only cares about Mormonism as it relates to Mitt Romney. Who will care about some unknown member who is being exed for criticizing the church? Without the Romney angle the media can't sell this story.

[_Fence Sitter]

Maybe the anonymous source was a closet Democrat.