Something that did concern me about Eva's post was this:
I believe the church as a tracking cookie n my computer because the Bishop told my husband "We know everything you are reading,all the sites Eva has been to"
Really? Sounds like computer hacking to me, which is an illegal and even jailable offence, whoever does it, Mormons or exmos.
The irony here is that if Eva's PC was hacked by her bishop or others (in Australia), and this was proven, they could be spending a stint behind bars at worst, or heavy fines at best.
If it does turn out that her PC was hacked by Church authorities (I don't know how else they'd know "everything" she was viewing), then this is a case where the "antidote" is worse than the poison.
Blixa wrote: I could not agree more, Ray. I found her halting account of experiences I don't really have the right words for (revelation? vision? inspiration?) extremely interesting and moving.
I am very interested in the kind of thing she describes and not from a knee-jerk debunking position either. She had some kind of experience that really helped her and allowed her to make an emotional breakthrough. Isn't that what religion should provide people the opportunity for?
I was very touched by her faith, especially after all she had been through.
RayAgostini wrote:Something that did concern me about Eva's post was this:
I believe the church as a tracking cookie n my computer because the Bishop told my husband "We know everything you are reading,all the sites Eva has been to"
Really? Sounds like computer hacking to me, which is an illegal and even jailable offence, whoever does it, Mormons or exmos.
The irony here is that if Eva's PC was hacked by her bishop or others (in Australia), and this was proven, they could be spending a stint behind bars at worst, or heavy fines at best.
If it does turn out that her PC was hacked by Church authorities (I don't know how else they'd know "everything" she was viewing), then this is a case where the "antidote" is worse than the poison.
Yeah, that's just downright creepy.
~Those who benefit from the status quo always attribute inequities to the choices of the underdog.~Ann Crittenden ~The Goddess is not separate from the world-She is the world and all things in it.~
So, the big offense was blessing her own child, within the confines of her own home?
Meanwhile, we have a man video recording interviews with disaffected Mormons and critics of the church and publishing them on the Internet, without being disciplined.
Oh for shame, how the mortals put the blame on us gods, for they say evils come from us, but it is they, rather, who by their own recklessness win sorrow beyond what is given... Zeus (1178 BC)
Once a council is called, the decision is pretty much foregone.
I've been in plenty where this is not the case. The general feeling is usually how can we get out of this with no discipline or just informal discipline? Pretty common in apostasy cases. Not so much in moral cases where some of the details are already known to meet mandatory criteria.
bcspace wrote:I've been in plenty where this is not the case. The general feeling is usually how can we get out of this with no discipline or just informal discipline? Pretty common in apostasy cases. Not so much in moral cases where some of the details are already known to meet mandatory criteria.
Do you feel that in Eva's case, being disfellowshipped was the right decision?
I don't want to comment on this particular case. I want to make a general observation though about the various circumstances of "dissenters".
The September Six types are one thing. I know many fellow apostates will disagree here, but relatively high-functioning intellectuals who want to do their own thing in a very public way have to at some point understand that even thought he Church might be lame and in the wrong, it's an organization ran by pragmatic businessmen as they well know, and will continue to be lame and in the wrong and oust them at some point.
Then there are people who are lower-functioning with significant life issues who have latched onto the Church very strongly due to heavy missionary influence and friendship (because they were easy targets,-- missionaries, Golden contacts have been through tragedy etc), selling points they can't read between the lines on, and are desperate for real material, straightforward answers that just aren't part of the typical upper east-side SLC culture.
I have several stories similar to the following: Guy in homeward is mid-thirties, divorced, a Vet, lost children in horrible accident, brought in by the missionaries who befriended him, and then alienated by the bishopric and leaders over his apostate teachings and ideas. Yeah: they guy had some screwed up ideas, care to guess why? Care to weigh in on whether or not he needed some serious professional help? Sure, I can see why his testimonies had the brethren concerned, but the effective harm was vastly mitigated by the fact that normal people in the ward quickly get that he has issues and aren't exactly being swayed into false worship practices over it. But the brethren have no way to deal with this stuff. Does the CHI have any advice on how to get help for members with mental health issues? There are plenty of Ensign articles that emphasize the healing power of the atonment, and the stodgy leaders whose experience is limited to business and acounting skills just assume that if these people were praying right and listening to their boring-ass talks that they'd not have personal problems any more because the Holy Ghost would heal them.
lame
Last edited by Guest on Sat Sep 22, 2012 5:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
RayAgostini wrote:This lady has written very interesting blog posts. I don't view her "offences" as being worthy of excommunication or being disfellowshiped, at least from what she says on her blog, and without hearing what the other party has to say. If what she says is accurate, it's an over-reaction on the part of the bishop, and a big over-reaction.
Thank god I'm not a Mormon. That is all. Why would anyone want to deal with damned BS like that? Just stay home and believe what you want to.
Whatever appears to be against the Book of Mormon is going to be overturned at some time in the future. So we can be pretty open minded.-charity 3/7/07
MASH quotes I peeked in the back [of the Bible] Frank, the Devil did it. I avoid church religiously. This isn't one of my sermons, I expect you to listen.