Harry Reid: Mitt Is Not The Face Of Mormonism

[_Kishkumen]

What has this got to do with what Romney said? I am talking about Reid. That is the topic of this thread.

But for what it is worth I think Romney's remarks were foolish. Does that make Reid's lies about Romney's taxes ok?

I think it is crystal clear that Romney is a tax dodger and a weasel. I find it difficult to be angry with Reid for accusing him of such.

[_Kishkumen]

Kish I know you loathe Romney. Am I defending his foolish remarks by saying Reid's accusation against Romney and now his current comments were scummy? What's the deal with you on this? Really?

I think that Romney is a tax cheat. Reid may not have been on point with exactly the way he is a tax cheat, but I think he is essentially right.

[_Jason Bourne]

The odd thing about Romney's IRA is the way he has taken a retirement tool for working people and stuffed it with millions of dollars in order to avoid taxes.

"The maximum for an IRA contribution in years 2006 and 2007 was $4,000 for an individual under the age of 50. Individuals aged 50 and older could contribute up to $5,000. For 2008 through 2011, the limit was $5,000 for those under age 50, and $6,000 for those over 50. All contributions must be from income."

You don't find anything odd about that, Jason?

My guess is the IRA was funded with carried interests and initial low value stocks that Bain invested in that grew phenomenally. Yes it is a bit odd but not unheard of. I have a client that invested solely his 401k in his company's stock and it about $100k grew to $5 million in about 15 years. Also, it is likely he had a 401k with a profit sharing contribution that allowed him to put, depending on the year, up to $40k in it. When he left Bain he likely rolled the 401k to an IRA.

[_Jason Bourne]

I think that Romney is a tax cheat. Reid may not have been on point with exactly the way he is a tax cheat, but I think he is essentially right.

'

Really? Why do you think this and how do you think he cheated?

[_Kishkumen]

Really? Why do you think this and how do you think he cheated?

Because his Byzantine dealings with the IRS represent a kind of dare for them to waste their time and resources on trying to challenge him. Chances are that the government won't bother with it, but you only do this if you are doing everything you can to avoid paying what most people would imagine that you fairly owe.

I just don't respect it. The legality and morality of what he has been doing is questionable.

That he can turn around and call hardworking, low-income families moochers whom he can't convince to be self-reliant is despicable.

That he claims to be a kind of self-made man is a joke.

[Guest]

DrW, according to the letter from PWC (Romney's accounting firm), Romney's average federal income tax rate between 1990 and 2009 was 20.2% and the lowest % he paid during those years was 13.66%. Unless I'm missing something, it doesn't seem like Romney was lying when he said his rate was at least 15%.

Good point. Thanks. Was not aware of the letter.

(I live in Oman and news of the US election available here is limited. Most folks in Oman couldn't care less about the US election.)

Not sure I believe what the letter says, but it is evidence.

If this were the case, and even the Republicans have called for Romney to release his tax returns, why has he not done so?

IMHO - refusal to release tax returns is still a big red flag. The guy is hiding something. If he were not, he would release. His failure to do so is damaging his what is left of his credibility big time, and he must know that.
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With regard to Harry Reid; I have met him and worked with his staff in Las Vegas. He has smart, competent folks working for him and they really are concerned about their constituents. Reid is a strong supporter of clean energy, and that is our business.

[_Kishkumen]

My guess is the IRA was funded with carried interests and initial low value stocks that Bain invested in that grew phenomenally. Yes it is a bit odd but not unheard of. I have a client that invested solely his 401k in his company's stock and it about $100k grew to $5 million in about 15 years. Also, it is likely he had a 401k with a profit sharing contribution that allowed him to put, depending on the year, up to $40k in it. When he left Bain he likely rolled the 401k to an IRA.

Yeah, by your example Romney's growth in the IRA account is still runaway insane. It stinks.

And by the way, I can assure you that Brian Galle is one of the brightest stars in tax law scholarship today. Your hasty insult of him is ill-advised. Read his work before you trash him.

[_Jason Bourne]

Kish

I am not as much as a Romney fan as I used to be. But I think your loathing may border on irrational in the way you view it. But I will tell you what. I would be interested in hearing what some tax expert you know thinks of this. Send me a PM on Facebook about this.

Also I don't get why you think Romney was not, at least to a certain extent self made.

[_Jason Bourne]

and by the way, I can assure you that Brian Galle is one of the brightest stars in tax law scholarship today. Your hasty insult of him is ill-advised. Read his work before you trash him.

His comment was asinine. Sorry but it was. He knows how IRAs work and that tax will be paid at ordinary rates when it is taken out. To argue that his gain in his IRA makes his effective tax rate lower is not respectable.

[_Kishkumen]

Also I don't get why you think Romney was not, at least to a certain extent self made.

You have to take what he is saying in context. On the one hand, he is lying about people who have had none of his advantages by saying that these hardworking folks do not desire to be self-reliant, but want to be dependent on the government, while he had the benefit of a superior education, the social and employment network of his successful family, and the numerous other advantages that wealth and a good family bring.

Seriously, how dare he?

You say that what Reid said was "scummy," but what about the kind of callous arrogance and duplicity that allows Romney to lie blatantly about industrious, self-sacrificing, and patriotic Americans who get the few legal breaks, many of them put in place by his own party, that help keep them afloat without the money and army of high-paid lawyers and accountants that allow Romney to play chicken with the IRS. AND HE HAS THE GALL TO ACCUSE THEM OF BEING MORALLY INFERIOR TO HIM.