Things Changed When Shirt Color Began to Matter

[_Bob Loblaw]

Because you avoided the entire substance of the two explanatory paragraphs I posted above, and I have no idea why.

What you explained was that dress and grooming standards (and language, among other things) are signs of celestial culture. I can see how modesty and cleanliness might be related to righteousness, but what is the relationship between white shirts and ties and righteousness? It seems like conformity for conformity's sake, which doesn't seem particularly righteous to me.

[_Droopy]

Don't be so melodramatic. The OP and most of the posts have been about the bizarre fixation of the LDS church...

As I said, I'll be moving on for now.

[_Bob Loblaw]

Its one sign, yes. So is a beautiful, well pressed Kimono.

And?

What would happen if you wore a beautiful well press Kimono to church? What if you didn't own a conservative white shirt or suit? Would going to church in your best sweatshirt and jeans be a sign of unrighteousness?

[_Droopy]

I can see how modesty and cleanliness might be related to righteousness, but what is the relationship between white shirts and ties and righteousness?

I've already explained that. Whiteness is always symbolic of purity and the ideals of the gospel, and a neat, well groomed, elegant appearance - not rough, slovenly, ugly, or disheveled, is indicative of one's internal state of mind as well as of one's sense of relation to others.

It seems like conformity for conformity's sake, which doesn't seem particularly righteous to me.

Conformity to nonconformity is still conformity. We do not have a choice of whether or not to conform, but only of what we will conform to.

[_Bob Loblaw]

As I said, I'll be moving on for now.

Another substanceless response. So far what I am getting from you is that white shirts and ties are signs of righteousness just because they are. Funny how you insult my lack of intelligence when I ask a question you cannot or will not answer. I haven't insulted you once, other than to note the melodramatic nature of one of your posts. You've already said I can't put together a coherent, logical argument, and you tell me I'm just like everyone else in the "trailer park." I know you're just trying to anger me but it isn't working. If you can't answer my questions with a reasonable explanation I'll just assume you can't do it.

[_Bob Loblaw]

I've already explained that. Whiteness is always symbolic of purity and the ideals of the gospel, and a neat, well groomed, elegant appearance - not rough, slovenly, ugly, or disheveled, is indicative of one's internal state of mind as well as of one's sense of relation to others.

Then why are the ties and suits dark, if white is the symbol of purity? I've been in wards and branches where people couldn't afford to dress the way you describe. Some wards looked rather disdainfully on the impoverished while others accepted people for coming to worship.

Conformity to nonconformity is still conformity. We do not have a choice of whether or not to conform, but only of what we will conform to.

I've already said that. Nonconformity for the sake of nonconformity is the same as conformity. Maybe you really aren't reading what I've written (perhaps you're too busy preparing your next insult).

[_Droopy]

Its one sign, yes. So is a beautiful, well pressed Kimono.

And?

What would happen if you wore a beautiful well press Kimono to church? What if you didn't own a conservative white shirt or suit? Would going to church in your best sweatshirt and jeans be a sign of unrighteousness?

You're being a Pharisaical hair splitter here just for its own anti-Mormon sake, and nothing else. In the South Seas missionaries wear white shirts, ties, and grass skirts. I've seen them. Obedience is the first law of Heaven. What the Lord requires, here or there, he requires, here or there. If the Lord says its OK to wear Kimonos in Japan to pass sacrament or lead a meeting, so be it. If he says he wants Japanese LDS to wear white shirts and ties to so officiate, then so be it. If he wants Americans to wear Kimonos to pass the sacrament, then so be it. I could care less (I like traditional Japanese men's clothing too, as well as Ming/Ching dynasty Chinese garb (and love the swordsman/scholar hairstyles)).

The crux of the matter is that if the Church is true, then what comes through the mouths of the Lord's servants the prophets, being the word of the Lord to us for our time and circumstances, is true and comes with blessings affixed to obedience to those standards and/or practices.

We can also rebel against or ignore those standards and counsel, and pass by the blessings. That's our prerogative.

[_sock puppet]

Droopy,

In law school, there were individuals like you that never quite understood the concept of substance over form. (Unfortunately, most ended up in government regulatory jobs!)

[_Droopy]

Then why are the ties and suits dark, if white is the symbol of purity?

Go ask Alice.

[_Bob Loblaw]

You're being a Pharisaical hair splitter here just for its own anti-Mormon sake, and nothing else. In the South Seas missionaries wear white shirts, ties, and grass skirts. I've seen them. Obedience is the first law of Heaven. What the Lord requires, here or there, he requires, here or there. If the Lord says its OK to wear Kimonos in Japan to pass sacrament or lead a meeting, so be it. If he says he wants Japanese LDS to wear white shirts and ties to so officiate, then so be it. If he wants Americans to wear Kimonos to pass the sacrament, then so be it. I could care less (I like traditional Japanese men's clothing too, as well as Ming/Ching dynasty Chinese garb (and love the swordsman/scholar hairstyles)).

I'm not anti-Mormon and I'm not splitting hairs. I just do not understand the "if God says so (through some church leader), we must conform" mentality. It's the same impulse that says we aren't allowed to question or criticize our leaders, turn down a calling, or refuse to obey instructions, even if we are instructed to do something we believe to be morally wrong.

The crux of the matter is that if the Church is true, then what comes through the mouths of the Lord's servants the prophets, being the word of the Lord to us for our time and circumstances, is true and comes with blessings affixed to obedience to those standards and/or practices.

I suppose I leave room for church leaders to impose their own standards and beliefs on members, even if the church is true. I once had a bishop announce that the Relief Society room was not to be used for anything but Relief Society, as it had been set apart specifically for that purpose. I thought that was ridiculous but as long as he was bishop that rule was enforced, making Sunday School classes a bit dicey because of lack of classroom space. Even if the church were true (and I'm pretty sure it isn't), there's plenty of room for personal interpretation on the part of leaders, even the prophet.

We can also rebel against or ignore those standards and counsel, and pass by the blessings. That's our prerogative.

What are the promised blessings of wearing white shirts and ties or shaving one's beard?