widows, entitlement, charity and all that...

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_Droopy
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Re: widows, entitlement, charity and all that...

Post by _Droopy »

How do you empower the "can'ts" so they don't become "won'ts".


This is why charity should be primarily local, personal, and involve accountability on both sides.

While we might not like the way they operate or feel that they go to far, there was a reason they came about. It is because the private charities weren't able to reach out to all the needy.


This is leftist mythology. The New Deal itself crowded out thousands of private charities in the thirties that were already helping the needy across the country on a local level, leaving only a fraction behind. There was also once something called "family" and "extended family" and "church" to which people retreated when times were tough. As both government and the consequences of the sixties eviscerated and weakened all of these institutions, the state is the last resort standing (and do you think the state is reluctant to step into this breech?).

Just like there would not be a need for unions, child labor laws, and the EPA if businesses had behaved themselves properly in the past.


1. It can be argued, taking a snapshot of the very early decades of the industrial revolution, and coming into the early 20th century, that the original union movement had its place and was fundamentally a sound idea, to a limited extent. That snapshot is now very old and faded, however, and the fundamental claims unions once made - the protection of workers from abusive working conditions and fairer wages - have long outlived their salience. Already by the thirties the core mission of unionism became what it had always essentially been, all the way back to the medieval guilds - to artificially raise the cost of wage labor by artificially restricting entry into various trades.

In the 1920s, unionism became a mafia controlled wage labor extortion racket on the east coast (among the Longshormen in New York, primarily) and retained that complexion for the rest of the 20th century. The Norris-LaGuardia and Wagner Acts gave unions vast coercive powers over business (and hence, the consumer and non-union worker) and the ability to raise wages and benefits for themselves well beyond their actual value in a free market for their services and skills, which also still remains to this day (as well as all the other corruptions and social bedlam attending unionism wherever it exists).

As capitalism matured and expanded, unionism became ever more an artifact of a bygone era of rapid and sometimes wrenching social change. Its long and severe decline since the sixties, as more and more American workers have simply abandoned the concept, is proof enough of that. Unionism also only ultimately raised wages and benefits for its own members, at the expense of the rest of the economy, and had a number of other deleterious economic and social side-effects.

2. The EPA has nothing to do with the disciplining of irresponsible American businesses, nor can it possibly be argued that existing civil and criminal laws in place at the time of its creation, or sense, were not adequate when actual corporate malfeasance was in play. It is a satrapy and tool of the environmental movement and a weapon of war by left-leaning administrations (such as the present one) against capitalism, free markets, and property rights, and industrial development. It also has no constitutional basis whatsoever, is a clearinghouse for junk science, behaves itself like something out of Brezhnev's Soviet Union, and should be abolished.

I'm a big C conservative and small l libertarian. I am not a purist libertarian in any sense, and do not believe that free markets can answer all human problems or that government does not have its place in human affairs.
Nothing is going to startle us more when we pass through the veil to the other side than to realize how well we know our Father [in Heaven] and how familiar his face is to us

- President Ezra Taft Benson


I am so old that I can remember when most of the people promoting race hate were white.

- Thomas Sowell
_son of Ishmael
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Re: widows, entitlement, charity and all that...

Post by _son of Ishmael »

Droopy wrote:

2. The EPA has nothing to do with the disciplining of irresponsible American businesses, nor can it possibly be argued that existing civil and criminal laws in place at the time of its creation, or sense, were not adequate when actual corporate malfeasance was in play. It is a satrapy and tool of the environmental movement and a weapon of war by left-leaning administrations (such as the present one) against capitalism, free markets, and property rights, and industrial development. It also has no constitutional basis whatsoever, is a clearinghouse for junk science, behaves itself like something out of Brezhnev's Soviet Union, and should be abolished.



"On July 9, 1970, citing rising concerns over environmental protection and conservation, President Richard Nixon transmitted Reorganization Plan No. 3 to the United States Congress by executive order, creating the EPA as a single, independent agency..."


I always knew Nixon was a left wing commie
I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use. - Galileo

Yeah, well, that's just, like, your opinion, man. - The Dude

Don't you know there ain't no devil, there's just god when he's drunk - Tom Waits
_Tarski
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Re: widows, entitlement, charity and all that...

Post by _Tarski »

son of Ishmael wrote:

"On July 9, 1970, citing rising concerns over environmental protection and conservation, President Richard Nixon transmitted Reorganization Plan No. 3 to the United States Congress by executive order..."


I always knew Nixon was a left wing commie



It just shows how far to the right society has gone. Nixon was in many ways farther to the left than Obama. Which is just to say that Obama isn't that far to the left at all.

By the way, the EPA is in principle a good thing. I suspect however, that they are far too succeptable to influence from big business.

There obviously needs to be rules regarding pollution and so forth and there needs to be an agency in charge of overseeing and enforcing. That's just common sense. Even Nixon could see that.
when believers want to give their claims more weight, they dress these claims up in scientific terms. When believers want to belittle atheism or secular humanism, they call it a "religion". -Beastie

yesterday's Mormon doctrine is today's Mormon folklore.-Buffalo
_Droopy
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Re: widows, entitlement, charity and all that...

Post by _Droopy »

"On July 9, 1970, citing rising concerns over environmental protection and conservation, President Richard Nixon transmitted Reorganization Plan No. 3 to the United States Congress by executive order, creating the EPA as a single, independent agency..."


I always knew Nixon was a left wing commie



Nixon was a progressive liberal, a determined Keynesian and supporter of the welfare state (the Great Society programs saw there single most dramatic expansion under Nixon, and wage and price controls were used freely during his tenure). His only conservative governance was in the area of foreign policy. He was a cold warrior, as were most Democrats of his generation.
Nothing is going to startle us more when we pass through the veil to the other side than to realize how well we know our Father [in Heaven] and how familiar his face is to us

- President Ezra Taft Benson


I am so old that I can remember when most of the people promoting race hate were white.

- Thomas Sowell
_Droopy
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Re: widows, entitlement, charity and all that...

Post by _Droopy »

It just shows how far to the right society has gone. Nixon was in many ways farther to the left than Obama. Which is just to say that Obama isn't that far to the left at all.


Oh LIE for the cause, Tarski. Make Goebbels rise from his grave and give you a big Siskel and Ebert thumbs up. Good show! Good show!

By the way, the EPA is in principle a good thing. I suspect however, that they are far too succeptable to influence from big business.


:lol: I... :lol: I just can't... :lol: Hold on... :lol: Give me a minute... :lol:

There...WHEW! That was a knee slapper. Now, the EPA is a rogue bureaucracy that has no constitutional or intellectual legitimacy. It is a satrapy of the environmental movement and of the cultural Left and a factory for the production of pseudoscience. It is wholly incompatible with the continuation of a free, open, prosperous, self-governing republic. It is, at its core, anti-democratic and totalitarian in nature.

Don't make me laugh like this again after I've just eaten.

There obviously needs to be rules regarding pollution and so forth and there needs to be an agency in charge of overseeing and enforcing. That's just common sense. Even Nixon could see that.


There are thousands of pages of laws and civil and criminal courts to enforce them. No further vast, intrusive, ideologically driven government agencies were ever needed for such a task.

Bow down before your God, Tarski, but he, like his father, will not support you in the end.
Nothing is going to startle us more when we pass through the veil to the other side than to realize how well we know our Father [in Heaven] and how familiar his face is to us

- President Ezra Taft Benson


I am so old that I can remember when most of the people promoting race hate were white.

- Thomas Sowell
_son of Ishmael
_Emeritus
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Joined: Sat May 12, 2012 1:46 am

Re: widows, entitlement, charity and all that...

Post by _son of Ishmael »

Tarski wrote:
son of Ishmael wrote:

"On July 9, 1970, citing rising concerns over environmental protection and conservation, President Richard Nixon transmitted Reorganization Plan No. 3 to the United States Congress by executive order..."


I always knew Nixon was a left wing commie



It just shows how far to the right society has gone. Nixon was in many ways farther to the left than Obama. Which is just to say that Obama isn't that far to the left at all.

By the way, the EPA is in principle a good thing. I suspect however, that they are far too succeptable to influence from big business.

There obviously needs to be rules regarding pollution and so forth and there needs to be an agency in charge of overseeing and enforcing. That's just common sense. Even Nixon could see that.


Yeah, that is the point I was trying to make is that we need these things (welfare, medicaid etc). It is just that are not run right.
I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use. - Galileo

Yeah, well, that's just, like, your opinion, man. - The Dude

Don't you know there ain't no devil, there's just god when he's drunk - Tom Waits
_Quasimodo
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Re: widows, entitlement, charity and all that...

Post by _Quasimodo »

Tarski wrote:By the way, the EPA is in principle a good thing. I suspect however, that they are far too succeptable to influence from big business.

There obviously needs to be rules regarding pollution and so forth and there needs to be an agency in charge of overseeing and enforcing. That's just common sense. Even Nixon could see that.


There need to be rules. If all companies are constrained by those same rules it evens the playing feild and no one has an advantage over the other. It makes it possible to protect the rights and needs of the populace and maintain compition.

If the rules governing boxing or football were removed, shortly, someone would show up in the ring or on the field with a baseball bat. The next guy would show up with a knife and so on.
This, or any other post that I have made or will make in the future, is strictly my own opinion and consequently of little or no value.

"Faith is believing something you know ain't true" Twain.
_Droopy
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Re: widows, entitlement, charity and all that...

Post by _Droopy »

Yeah, that is the point I was trying to make is that we need these things (welfare, medicaid etc). It is just that are not run right.


Do you think the Soviet Union, Communist China, Cuba, East Germany etc. weren't "run right?"

Do you think that was the primary problem with socialism?
Nothing is going to startle us more when we pass through the veil to the other side than to realize how well we know our Father [in Heaven] and how familiar his face is to us

- President Ezra Taft Benson


I am so old that I can remember when most of the people promoting race hate were white.

- Thomas Sowell
_son of Ishmael
_Emeritus
Posts: 1690
Joined: Sat May 12, 2012 1:46 am

Re: widows, entitlement, charity and all that...

Post by _son of Ishmael »

Droopy wrote:
Yeah, that is the point I was trying to make is that we need these things (welfare, medicaid etc). It is just that are not run right.


Do you think the Soviet Union, Communist China, Cuba, East Germany etc. weren't "run right?"

Do you think that was the primary problem with socialism?



Oh I see. Because I think that government has a role in our lives I must be a left wing, pink-o, commie lover.
I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use. - Galileo

Yeah, well, that's just, like, your opinion, man. - The Dude

Don't you know there ain't no devil, there's just god when he's drunk - Tom Waits
_moksha
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Re: widows, entitlement, charity and all that...

Post by _moksha »

From now on, the only help for the widow's son will be based on a stint at the Bishops Warehouse. All others will be advised to sell matches, shoe shines and oranges on the corner, depending upon local zoning ordinances.
Cry Heaven and let loose the Penguins of Peace
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