The government of the CK

[_zeezrom]

The Celestial Kingdom will have unlimited resources? I suppose that means everyone drives huge pickup trucks to the giant grocery store.

Will a bourgeois society exist in the CK?

[_LDSToronto]

I don't really think Zeezrom's question was an intellectually serious one, and was just put up to provoke a row. However, I will simply say that economics has to do fundamentally with the alternative uses of scarce resources. In the Celestial Kingdom, resources are unlimited, and the power of gods to use, manipulate, organize, and employ them unlimited as well.

Gods are also not mortal and not susceptible to any kind of infirmity or lack, and hence, they do not "need" anything in an economic sense. As Von Mises would say, there is never any perceived "uneasiness" that would require the acquisition of anything in an economic transaction. And is not the concept of money irrelevant in a CK context? Why does a being that can create worlds need lunch money?

Hence, economics, as we understand the term, is not relevant to the CK. Indeed, given what descriptions we have of the conditions prevailing on the earth during the Millennium (the earth will be a paradisaical planet, of a terrestrial character similar in nature to the Garden before the Fall), concepts of economics will be modified under those conditions too.

Zee wasn't asking about economics, he was asking about governance models. But since you brought up economics (and displayed your wild ignorance of the topic), please note that there is always a currency, be it power, money, sex, goods, etc. And even in a model where resources are limitless, but power is controlled, current economic models can and do describe conditions in heaven.

H.

[_zeezrom]

Thanks LDST. The monster called Correlation got me thinking in this direction.

[_zeezrom]

How will heaven be governed? How will resources be distributed? How will property be divided?

There will be no war, no killing.
There will be social equality.
People will create according to their desires and abilities.

One angel will sew while another will bake and another will trade. Some might speculate and others will write. There will be no wages... or will there be?

Carl Marx, what say you to all this?

[_Yoda]

I don't really think Zeezrom's question was an intellectually serious one, and was just put up to provoke a row. However, I will simply say that economics has to do fundamentally with the alternative uses of scarce resources. In the Celestial Kingdom, resources are unlimited, and the power of gods to use, manipulate, organize, and employ them unlimited as well.

Gods are also not mortal and not susceptible to any kind of infirmity or lack, and hence, they do not "need" anything in an economic sense. As Von Mises would say, there is never any perceived "uneasiness" that would require the acquisition of anything in an economic transaction. And is not the concept of money irrelevant in a CK context? Why does a being that can create worlds need lunch money?

Hence, economics, as we understand the term, is not relevant to the CK. Indeed, given what descriptions we have of the conditions prevailing on the earth during the Millennium (the earth will be a paradisaical planet, of a terrestrial character similar in nature to the Garden before the Fall), concepts of economics will be modified under those conditions too.

I think, though, that even though there won't be economics in the sense of what we know today, the ideal economic system will be more of a theocracy rather than capitalism. When the United Order was in place, all money went to the Church. Then, the funds were divied out according to individual member needs.

For example, if a couple had 10 kids, they would have a mansion. A young couple would have a small house. It didn't matter if the couple with no children were doctors making gobs of money, and the couple with 10 kids were grocery store clerks.

Division of funds was completely based on need, leaving the people free to serve the Church, and not worry about temporal needs.

[_LDSToronto]

Alright, alright, enough of this nonsense. This is how it will all work out:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XJ7HZATMKBY

[_zeezrom]

...was completely based on need...

Do heavenly hosts want or need?

[_Yoda]

...was completely based on need...

Do heavenly hosts want or need?

No. I was basically referring to how, according to the Church's doctrine, an ideal economic system would exist today on earth.

[_zeezrom]

Do heavenly hosts want or need?

No. I was basically referring to how, according to the Church's doctrine, an ideal economic system would exist today on earth.

But that is kind of sad. I mean it is kind of sad to think of a world in which we don't want or need. It feels robotic.

[_Droopy]

Zee wasn't asking about economics, he was asking about governance models.

His question was about whether the CK was more like communism or more like capitalism. Communism is a doctrine grounded wholly in the nature of the modes of production, ownership, and distribution within society, and the way in which all other aspects of human existence reflect that mode of production, ownership, and distribution of capital. "Capitalism" is a creation of Marxist theory, which is understood to be, itself, an entire social system and form of governance grounded in base and superstructure theory within the context of inevitable historical forces working there way towards socialism.

Humans, in this model, are completely the products of their economic circumstances and the of productive forces dominant in a certain epoch. His question was wholly economic in nature because, as asked, it was a comparison between socialism and capitalism, two sides of the same Marxist coin and both understood as being the basis of all other aspects of human society.

But since you brought up economics (and displayed your wild ignorance of the topic), please note that there is always a currency, be it power, money, sex, goods, etc.

I thought the context of this was the CK, which means a realm of perfect, resurrected, post-mortal perfection and exaltation - godhood? If so, then why is there a need for a "currency?" Why is any medium of exchange necessary in a world in which the individual has, within him or herself, all power, all knowledge, and who's power and rulership encompasses "all things?"

What does a god "need" that he/she does not already have, except, in LDS doctrine, the creation of more neat stuff like universes? And as a God, as I would have all power to create, organize, and structure, and eternity to so do, this isn't really a lack in any salient sense, as I have both infinite power, infinite stuff to use my power upon, and infinite time in which to use it.

There are no scarce resources, but infinite resources, and their possible uses are vastly increased - indeed illimitable - over mortal limitations of use (matter and energy) here.

And even in a model where resources are limitless, but power is controlled, current economic models can and do describe conditions in heaven.

1. Then perhaps you can explain why, in a world of unlimited resources, unlimited alternative uses of those resources, and omnipotent power to mold and manipulate those resources, anything like "current economic models," contrived and relevant to a telestial world or state (in which there are unlimited wants but scarce resources with alternative uses) are relevant to the Celestial Kingdom (unlimited resources, unlimited uses, all power to use them, and all wants/desires within reach at will) and to beings who have, in an absolute sense, no economic need to fulfill, being themselves without any lack, deficit, or perceived disequilibrium, and who already, as gods, "own" all things within the cosmos they have created and organized)?