Links to the Maxwell Institute

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_Drifting
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Re: Links to the Maxwell Institute

Post by _Drifting »

Kishkumen wrote:
Drifting wrote:I am no Mopologist lover, but it's hardly 'less accessible'. You go to the Home page of MST, click on 'about' and there it is. It takes less clicks to find the link to NAMIRS on MST than it does to read a thread on here. Are you suggesting threads on here are 'less accessible' because it takes more than two clicks to get to them?


You are not addressing any of the observations I brought to your attention.

Consider this. If I said I was going to put your name on a plaque in honor of your great contributions to Cassius University, and the plaque looked like this:

HONORIS CAUSA DRIFTING

versus this:

HONORIS CAUSA fredralphjoefrankfleetingdriftingjohnsimpsonalbutaneopoldlectralistempusque

You tell me which inscription does you more honor and serves as real recognition of your unique importance to our university.

Damning with faint praise is a concept with which you are familiar, no?


No need for rudeness!

I think my issue is that we are talking about a link, within a list of links that's been moved from the Home Page of a website to the second page 'About' of the website. Not a plaque of honour. You're seeing a mountain where I see a small lump atop a small mole hill.

I think we can agree to differ. Can't we?
“We look to not only the spiritual but also the temporal, and we believe that a person who is impoverished temporally cannot blossom spiritually.”
Keith McMullin - Counsellor in Presiding Bishopric

"One, two, three...let's go shopping!"
Thomas S Monson - Prophet, Seer, Revelator
_Kishkumen
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Re: Links to the Maxwell Institute

Post by _Kishkumen »

Drifting wrote:No need for rudeness!

I think my issue is that we are talking about a link, within a list of links that's been moved from the Home Page of a website to the second page 'About' of the website. Not a plaque of honour. You're seeing a mountain where I see a small lump atop a small mole hill.

I think we can agree to differ. Can't we?


Yeah, we are going to have to differ on this, but I don't think the difference is all that big. And, to be clear, I think you are being more than a little cheeky with the Good Doctor in dismissing his theory out of hand with such language as "egging up the pudding." Doctor Scratch has dealt with Peterson et al. for years now, and, all kidding aside, he knows them pretty well by now. He has brought a number of pieces of accurate intelligence to our attention, and he has decimated apologetic attempts at passing off whoppers on more than one occasion.

All I am saying here is that this development could signal something. For those who study apologetics in greater depth, it might even be a piece of evidence of historical significance, something one might use in a larger case study. I grant that Doctor Scratch tends to go for the darker interpretation of such things, but, really, look whom we are dealing with here!

These guys are pranksters and put-down artists. They love adding a generous dollop of wordplay, invective, innuendo, and implication to everything they do. They have used acrostics, bitched endlessly about the precise meaning of "insider," and engaged in endless other silly, petty, sophomoric, and tedious things to get their digs in. So, no, I don't think this is "out there" or "silly." I think it is a possibility.
"Petition wasn’t meant to start a witch hunt as I’ve said 6000 times." ~ Hanna Seariac, LDS apologist
_Drifting
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Re: Links to the Maxwell Institute

Post by _Drifting »

Kishkumen wrote:
Drifting wrote:No need for rudeness!

I think my issue is that we are talking about a link, within a list of links that's been moved from the Home Page of a website to the second page 'About' of the website. Not a plaque of honour. You're seeing a mountain where I see a small lump atop a small mole hill.

I think we can agree to differ. Can't we?


Doctor Scratch has dealt with Peterson et al. for years now, and, all kidding aside, he knows them pretty well by now. He has brought a number of pieces of accurate intelligence to our attention, and he has decimated apologetic attempts at passing off whoppers on more than one occasion.

I am not disputing the Doctors past 'work'. Rather, I'm pointing out that this 'hidden link' theory just isn't of the same...seriousness?...strength?...quality?


All I am saying here is that this development could signal something. For those who study apologetics in greater depth, it might even be a piece of evidence of historical significance, something one might use in a larger case study. I grant that Doctor Scratch tends to go for the darker interpretation of such things, but, really, look whom we are dealing with here!

I think if it's a 'step' in a walk towards distancing from FAIR then fair enough, I'll hold my hands up and say 'Bravo Doctor, once again you saw it coming and I was wrong'. But I don't see it. Yet.

These guys are pranksters and put-down artists. They love adding a generous dollop of wordplay, invective, innuendo, and implication to everything they do. They have used acrostics, bitched endlessly about the precise meaning of "insider," and engaged in endless other silly, petty, sophomoric, and tedious things to get their digs in.

Agreed

So, no, I don't think this is "out there" or "silly." I think it is a possibility.

I guess we will have to watch this space...
“We look to not only the spiritual but also the temporal, and we believe that a person who is impoverished temporally cannot blossom spiritually.”
Keith McMullin - Counsellor in Presiding Bishopric

"One, two, three...let's go shopping!"
Thomas S Monson - Prophet, Seer, Revelator
_RayAgostini

Re: Links to the Maxwell Institute

Post by _RayAgostini »

Doctor Scratch wrote:Aha! Thank you, Drifting. Let me ask you this, though: for how long has the link been buried in the "About" section? I seem to recall, and the Wayback link appears to indicate, that the link used to be on the front page.


This is the cached version of MST in February 2010.

Duane Boyce was the 48th contribution.

This is how it looks Today, with 334 contributions.

So the design hasn't changed between February 2010, and the latest contribution in September 2012, and probably not before that either.

Doctor Scratch wrote:Do you notice anything different? I did. I remember that, for the longest time, MST contained a "Links" sidebar, and that this included a link to.... The Neal A. Maxwell Institute.


You're probably confusing it with the sidebar links alongside individual testimonies. (February 2010)


Those links still exist today alongside individual testimonies, as shown in the last contribution in September 2012. So every time someone reads a testimony, the prominent links are there in the right hand sidebar.

Reasonably people can, therefore, conclude that your speculations in this thread are null and void
_Ludd
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Re: Links to the Maxwell Institute

Post by _Ludd »

RayAgostini wrote:Those links still exist today alongside individual testimonies, as shown in the last contribution in September 2012.


I don't have an opinion about the topic of this thread, but I did just read the Sam Hardy testimony that is linked in your reply.

Wow! What an interesting testimony. He goes to some lengths to talk about the fact that his academic peers (in the field of Psychology) don't believe in God, angels, and devils, etc. But he does! Those things are real, and he's bearing his testimony of that fact.
_Doctor Scratch
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Re: Links to the Maxwell Institute

Post by _Doctor Scratch »

I would like to extend my thanks to Drifting and Ray A for performing a rigorous and incisive peer review on my initial thoughts: your comments have been invaluable in terms of helping to bring my Mopologetic scholarship up to the appropriate levels. It may very well be that the "Links" section/sidebar was moved for different reasons.

Nonetheless, I continue to believe that two things are significant:

1) FAIR continues to link to the Web site of a Maxwell Institute that is still headed by M. Gerald Bradford. As I noted in my OP, one sort of has to view this as a slap in the face to DCP. Why would they continue to link to the Web site of the place that so "betrayed" him? And note, too, that FAIR was and apparently still is involved in "Mormon Scholars Testify." I wouldn't be surprised to learn that the site has basically been on autopilot for the last year or so, with FAIR volunteers doing pretty much all of the work.

And, again, as I noted: DCP at first promoted FAIR as "the only game in town," and said that he would urge former MI donors to direct their "charitable" funds to FAIR. If Doctor Peterson has now decided to throw his considerable weight behind the MI, does that mean that FAIR has been left hanging out to dry? And if so, can we interpret these links to be a kind of "rebuke" of DCP's "abandoning the FAIR ship"? Granted, I am speculating here, but you have to admit, it's kind of interesting.

2) Neither FAIR nor MST feature links to Mormon Interpreter, and MI has, as far as I know, only grudgingly published links to the Maxwell Institute--there is no permanent, highly recommended "Affiliate"-type link like one finds on FAIR.

I guess the question must ultimately rest with FAIR and the MI Mopologists: where do they stand? Do they "Stand With Dan," as one notable lower-tier Mopologist once put it? Or, instead, are they opting to invest in the future of Mormon Studies at the MI?
"[I]f, while hoping that everybody else will be honest and so forth, I can personally prosper through unethical and immoral acts without being detected and without risk, why should I not?." --Daniel Peterson, 6/4/14
_Kishkumen
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Re: Links to the Maxwell Institute

Post by _Kishkumen »

Doctor Scratch wrote:I guess the question must ultimately rest with FAIR and the MI Mopologists: where do they stand? Do they "Stand With Dan," as one notable lower-tier Mopologist once put it? Or, instead, are they opting to invest in the future of Mormon Studies at the MI?


This is why I continue to be interested in these developments, even in the small details. Most folks wait to see a singe game's final score, as though there were no long view. The Mopologists are more dedicated than that. They continue to fight the war, regardless of the immediate, stunning reversal at the Maxwell Institute. Do you think that Dr. Peterson has forgotten MDB?

No, he just recently admitted to his fellow Facebook friends that he continues to watch our comments with great interest. At the same time, he turned a discussion of politics into another row over apologetics. Others can poo-poo Doctor Scratch's vigilance in tracking these activities, and it may be that not every theory or piece of evidence is a "hit," but I wager that we will hear much more from the classic-FARMS Mopologists. Just you wait and see.
Last edited by Guest on Thu Oct 25, 2012 1:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
"Petition wasn’t meant to start a witch hunt as I’ve said 6000 times." ~ Hanna Seariac, LDS apologist
_Doctor Scratch
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Re: Links to the Maxwell Institute

Post by _Doctor Scratch »

Kishkumen wrote:No, he just recently admitted to his fellow Facebook friends just that he continues to watch our comments with great interest. At the same time, he turned a discussion of politics into another row over apologetics.


Really! That's quite interesting! Would you perhaps be willing to post these comments for us, Reverend?
"[I]f, while hoping that everybody else will be honest and so forth, I can personally prosper through unethical and immoral acts without being detected and without risk, why should I not?." --Daniel Peterson, 6/4/14
_Kishkumen
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Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2008 10:00 pm

Re: Links to the Maxwell Institute

Post by _Kishkumen »

Doctor Scratch wrote:Really! That's quite interesting! Would you perhaps be willing to post these comments for us, Reverend?


Daniel Peterson wrote:I've seen your rhetoric a few times over the past few weeks at your home message board. It's the same old same old. Your never-ending personal contempt and non-stop sneering, your sheer unfairness, have deprived your views of any and all credibility with me.


Daniel Peterson wrote:I'm not going to identify your home message board, or directly connect your multi-year pseudonymous career of character assassination and (very) personal attacks, not only against me (though there've been hundreds and hundreds of such posts) but against other believing Latter-day Saints, with your public persona. I suspect that some of your LDS friends would find your behavior on your home turf rather . . . surprising. But that's between you and Whatever.


Daniel Peterson wrote: At least you can take comfort in the fact that I'm extremely unlikely to make derisive comments about you, by name, day in and day out, as you've been doing about me for many years now. Heck, I very seldom respond to you at all, even by your pseudonym. And I've never identified the message-board cesspool where you do your sneer-posting.


Daniel Peterson wrote: You have a multi-year history of almost daily multiple pseudonymous attacks and sneers explicitly directed at me, and yet I've rarely responded to you, and never by name. Which is to observe, among other things, that you're not in a very good position to fault me for supposedly being "thin skinned" and "playing dirty."...

I'm STILL not going to reveal your pseudonym (which I could have done years ago), or alert anybody else to where you hang out and to the kind of company you keep there. You can, and probably will, continue to behave over the next several years the way you've behaved for the past five or six -- and, very largely, with impunity.


Daniel Peterson wrote:I surrender this to you. I simply don't have time to post ten, twenty, or thirty times in a single day about you. And, truth be told, I really don't have the interest, either. How you've managed to maintain your remarkable focus on me so consistently, day after day after day, over the past several years at your pseudonymous message-board den is beyond me.
"Petition wasn’t meant to start a witch hunt as I’ve said 6000 times." ~ Hanna Seariac, LDS apologist
_RayAgostini

Re: Links to the Maxwell Institute

Post by _RayAgostini »

Doctor Scratch wrote: It may very well be that the "Links" section/sidebar was moved for different reasons.


You no comprende, Scratch. The links were never moved. This is the earliest non-text cached version of MST currently available on the Net. It has a 2009 copyright notice at the bottom of the page.

There is no difference in design between this, and the current version.

As I said before, your memory of where the links were is apparently conflated, which is right next to every bio posted on MST. And with that misunderstanding in mind you stated:

Doctor Scratch wrote:What this means is that the administrators at MST have deliberately gone in and made an effort to cover up the site's past relationship with not only the MI, but with old-school Mopologetics in general. Now there is no mention whatsoever of FAIR, even--despite the fact that FAIR volunteers were instrumental in launching the project.


That's not what it means, at all. It just means that you're remembering badly. So, from the start, the whole "thesis" of your thread is based on a false premise, i.e., that links were moved, when in fact nothing has been changed or moved in the design of the website since it began.
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