"It's Not Pertinent to my Salvation!"

[_consiglieri]

This statement always hacks me off so much, I wanted to start a thread about it to get the experience of others relating to it.

My experience has been that it is used as a smug excuse for shutting down discussion of anything that might be challenging.

And to do it in such a way as to put one on a higher plane of righteousness than the person addressed.

I have gotten so sick of it, I have taken to responding with the question, "How can you be so sure?"

All the Best!

--Consiglieri

[_Stormy Waters]

Years ago my ward had a question and answer session with some stake leader or general authority. Pretty much anytime a difficult or speculative question was asked he would say, "Is that pertinent to your salvation?" What bothered me about it though is that it seemed that he was saying that instead of just admitting "I don't know." Made me wonder why we were doing a question and answer in the first place.
I think generally the phrase is used instead of the more honest and accurate, "I don't know."

[_Fence Sitter]

At the end of a mid 1970s missionaries zone conference in a South American, Boyd K Packer asked if we had any questions? I raised my hand and asked if he would explain more about the second anointing. "You don't need to know that" was all I got.

For a Church that teaches that we are here to be tested, the list of what is on the test is awfully short.


Pay - Check

Pray - Check

Obey - Check.


"Well done my true and faithful servant".

[_RockSlider]

A partial clip from something I posted here at MDB when I first started:

"A man named Wayne Phelps (the great-great-great grandson of WW) lived in my ward. Wayne was a hermit. He lived in an old beater Mormon Church that was put out of commission many years before. He drove an old beater car. He always wore a suit which appeared to have been purchased in the 1940's. He was a brilliant thinker and a much studied Mormon mystic. Wayne was not liked, well not liked is strong ... just not accepted and definitely unknown to the members. Like mentioned Wayne appeared to be a poor hermit. I spent a lot of time with Wayne in the relief society room of that old beater church where he lived. He invited me to go with him to a basketball game one night (turns out he is an honored member of the Benson Institute if that means anything to anyone ... but that's a whole other story).

The last church meeting I ever attended was a High Priest group meeting where Wayne made a comment on a simple scripture. He said something like "It just so happens I spent 10 hours yesterday pondering this exact scripture ... he then proceeded to give an incredible interpretation of the scripture.

The quorum burst out in laughter. The high priest group leader went to the board and drew a bulls' eye, and explained ... if you confine your study to what is in the instruction manual you are right here (pointing at the center of the bulls' eye). If you speculate on what has been written in the manual then you are right here (pointing at the next outer ring), and if you speculate on material outside of the manual, like Wayne has done then you are way out here (pointing way off target). Ironic thing was, Wayne's "outside material" was the scripture.

I could no longer take it. I stood up, walked out and have never returned."

That was about 2002. What a shame that we silence those that could share with us those pearls that should not be cast before swine.

[_sock puppet]

@RockSlider

So Correlated manuals Trump scripture. Was DCP or Hambone the group leader in that HP meeting?

[Guest]

My question would be "What is pertinent for my salvation?"
Seems once I have the signs, tokens and handshakes to get past those pesky sentinels I am good to go.

[_Kishkumen]

The quorum burst out in laughter. The high priest group leader went to the board and drew a bulls' eye, and explained ... if you confine your study to what is in the instruction manual you are right here (pointing at the center of the bulls' eye). If you speculate on what has been written in the manual then you are right here (pointing at the next outer ring), and if you speculate on material outside of the manual, like Wayne has done then you are way out here (pointing way off target). Ironic thing was, Wayne's "outside material" was the scripture.

I could no longer take it. I stood up, walked out and have never returned."

That was about 2002. What a shame that we silence those that could share with us those pearls that should not be cast before swine.

"Forgive them, Father, for they know not what they do."

We are children. We are ignorant. We fear. We choose blindness over sight. We choose sleep over wakefulness.

What is to be done?

What does the person who wants to be wakeful do about the fear and hatred that comes as a response to expressing that desire for wakefulness openly?

I don't know. Charity?

It is extremely challenging. I don't have any answers.

[_sock puppet]

At the end of a mid 1970s missionaries zone conference in a South American, Boyd K Packer asked if we had any questions? I raised my hand and asked if he would explain more about the second anointing. "You don't need to know that" was all I got.

So the 2nd anointing is needless.

Years ago my ward had a question and answer session with some stake leader or general authority. Pretty much anytime a difficult or speculative question was asked he would say, "Is that pertinent to your salvation?"

Knowledge is not necessary.

So, you don't need an ordinance; it's superfluous if not needed. You don't need to know the answers to difficult or speculative questions. Just stick to the pablum.

Now, remind me what it is then believers are supposed to be getting for their 10%, their Sundays, and not living life as they might otherwise choose?

...a stairway to heaven, you say?

[_Blixa]

A partial clip from something I posted here at MDB when I first started:

"A man named Wayne Phelps (the great-great-great grandson of WW) lived in my ward. Wayne was a hermit. He lived in an old beater Mormon Church that was put out of commission many years before. He drove an old beater car. He always wore a suit which appeared to have been purchased in the 1940's. He was a brilliant thinker and a much studied Mormon mystic. Wayne was not liked, well not liked is strong ... just not accepted and definitely unknown to the members. Like mentioned Wayne appeared to be a poor hermit. I spent a lot of time with Wayne in the relief society room of that old beater church where he lived. He invited me to go with him to a basketball game one night (turns out he is an honored member of the Benson Institute if that means anything to anyone ... but that's a whole other story).

The last church meeting I ever attended was a High Priest group meeting where Wayne made a comment on a simple scripture. He said something like "It just so happens I spent 10 hours yesterday pondering this exact scripture ... he then proceeded to give an incredible interpretation of the scripture.

The quorum burst out in laughter. The high priest group leader went to the board and drew a bulls' eye, and explained ... if you confine your study to what is in the instruction manual you are right here (pointing at the center of the bulls' eye). If you speculate on what has been written in the manual then you are right here (pointing at the next outer ring), and if you speculate on material outside of the manual, like Wayne has done then you are way out here (pointing way off target). Ironic thing was, Wayne's "outside material" was the scripture.

I could no longer take it. I stood up, walked out and have never returned."

That was about 2002. What a shame that we silence those that could share with us those pearls that should not be cast before swine.

That's a great exit.

[Guest]

To me, this is the most serious flaw in LDS culture. As a culture we value knowledge and expertise, but only insofar as such knowledge and expertise have practical application: plumbing a sink or wiring a house, doing open heart surgery, balancing the books or setting-up the IPO for a company you hope is going to score big-time. Anything else--besides of course Gospel knowledge, but then only the basics--is considered superfluous, and quite possibly dangerous.

In my view a very serious flaw....