Why I don't believe the story of the Great Flood...

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_The Erotic Apologist
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Re: Why I don't believe the story of the Great Flood...

Post by _The Erotic Apologist »

LittleNipper wrote:True Christianity is a RELATIONSHIP between God and an individual.
Yes, it's relationship--it's a master/slave relationship; a victim/abuser relationship. It would be different if it were a divine parent/child relationship, but it's not. It's the most poisonous relationship imaginable.

LittleNipper wrote:And I understand that people do terrible things thinking that God wants them too...
This is because your god does exactly that: he tells people to go out and do terrible things. The ancient Hebrew sky god is a very nasty piece of work, but this is the same god you claim to have a relationship with.

LittleNipper wrote:...however, there are plenty of people who do bad things because they feel that there is either no god, no one sees, or God doesn't really care...
Can't argue with you there.

LittleNipper wrote:...that is where it becomes complex. That is honestly where I see you coming from.
It's only complex because you employ a double standard: When your god slaughters people it's because he loves them and wants them to be with him in paradise. This is moral hypocrisy.

/gag.
Surprise, surprise, there is no divine mandate for the Church to discuss and portray its history accurately.
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I pray thee, sir, forgive me for the mess. And whether I shot first, I'll not confess.
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_LittleNipper
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Re: Why I don't believe the story of the Great Flood...

Post by _LittleNipper »

The Erotic Apologist wrote:
LittleNipper wrote:True Christianity is a RELATIONSHIP between God and an individual.
Yes, it's relationship--it's a master/slave relationship; a victim/abuser relationship. It would be different if it were a divine parent/child relationship, but it's not. It's the most poisonous relationship imaginable.

LittleNipper wrote:And I understand that people do terrible things thinking that God wants them too...
This is because your god does exactly that: he tells people to go out and do terrible things. The ancient Hebrew sky god is a very nasty piece of work, but this is the same god you claim to have a relationship with.

LittleNipper wrote:...however, there are plenty of people who do bad things because they feel that there is either no god, no one sees, or God doesn't really care...
Can't argue with you there.

LittleNipper wrote:...that is where it becomes complex. That is honestly where I see you coming from.
It's only complex because you employ a double standard: When your god slaughters people it's because he loves them and wants them to be with him in paradise. This is moral hypocrisy.

/gag.
You must have missed the FACT that the people God had the Israelites drive out were perverted and they were destroying the very ecology of the land with their perverted ways. Please read below. It may be the very reason the world is in the state of decay it is in.
Leviticus 18:1-30 Young's Literal Translation (YLT)

1 And Jehovah speaketh unto Moses, saying,

2 `Speak unto the sons of Israel, and thou hast said unto them, I [am] Jehovah your God;

3 according to the work of the land of Egypt in which ye have dwelt ye do not, and according to the work of the land of Canaan whither I am bringing you in, ye do not, and in their statutes ye walk not.

4 `My judgments ye do, and My statutes ye keep, to walk in them; I [am] Jehovah your God;

5 and ye have kept My statutes and My judgments which man doth and liveth in them; I [am] Jehovah.

6 `None of you unto any relation of his flesh doth draw near to uncover nakedness; I [am] Jehovah.

7 `The nakedness of thy father and the nakedness of thy mother thou dost not uncover, she [is] thy mother; thou dost not uncover her nakedness.

8 `The nakedness of the wife of thy father thou dost not uncover; it [is] the nakedness of thy father.

9 `The nakedness of thy sister, daughter of thy father, or daughter of thy mother, born at home or born without; thou dost not uncover their nakedness.

10 `The nakedness of thy son's daughter, or of thy daughter's daughter: thou dost not uncover their nakedness; for theirs [is] thy nakedness.

11 `The nakedness of a daughter of thy father's wife, begotten of thy father, she [is] thy sister; thou dost not uncover her nakedness.

12 `The nakedness of a sister of thy father thou dost not uncover; she [is] a relation of thy father.

13 `The nakedness of thy mother's sister thou dost not uncover; for she [is] thy mother's relation.

14 `The nakedness of thy father's brother thou dost not uncover; unto his wife thou dost not draw near; she [is] thine aunt.

15 `The nakedness of thy daughter-in-law thou dost not uncover; she [is] thy son's wife; thou dost not uncover her nakedness.

16 `The nakedness of thy brother's wife thou dost not uncover; it [is] thy brother's nakedness.

17 `The nakedness of a woman and her daughter thou dost not uncover; her son's daughter, and her daughter's daughter thou dost not take to uncover her nakedness; they [are] her relations; it [is] wickedness.

18 `And a woman unto another thou dost not take, to be an adversary, to uncover her nakedness beside her, in her life.

19 `And unto a woman in the separation of her uncleanness thou dost not draw near to uncover her nakedness.

20 `And unto the wife of thy fellow thou dost not give thy seed of copulation, for uncleanness with her.

21 `And of thy seed thou dost not give to pass over to the Molech; nor dost thou pollute the name of thy God; I [am] Jehovah.

22 `And with a male thou dost not lie as one lieth with a woman; abomination it [is].

23 `And with any beast thou dost not give thy copulation, for uncleanness with it; and a woman doth not stand before a beast to lie down with it; confusion it [is].

24 `26 and ye -- ye have kept My statutes and My judgments, and do not [any] of all these abominations, the native and the sojourner Ye are not defiled with all these, for with all these have the nations been defiled which I am sending away from before you;

25 and the land is defiled, and I charge its iniquity upon it, and the land vomiteth out its inhabitants:
who is sojourning in your midst,

27 (for all these abominations have the men of the land done who [are] before you, and the land is defiled),

28 and the land doth not vomit you out in your defiling it, as it hath vomited out the nation which [is] before you;

29 for any one who doth [any] of all these abominations -- even the persons who are doing [so], have been cut off from the midst of their people;

30 and ye have kept My charge, so as not to do [any] of the abominable statutes which have been done before you, and ye do not defile yourselves with them; I [am] Jehovah your God.'
_The Erotic Apologist
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Re: Why I don't believe the story of the Great Flood...

Post by _The Erotic Apologist »

LittleNipper wrote:You must have missed the FACT that the people God had the Israelites drive out were perverted and they were destroying the very ecology of the land with their perverted ways.
Right, sounds like a perfectly good excuse for a massacre. Are you positive it's this god that you're supposed to have the personal relationship with?
Surprise, surprise, there is no divine mandate for the Church to discuss and portray its history accurately.
--Yahoo Bot

I pray thee, sir, forgive me for the mess. And whether I shot first, I'll not confess.
--Han Solo, from William Shakespeare's Star Wars
_Quasimodo
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Re: Why I don't believe the story of the Great Flood...

Post by _Quasimodo »

LittleNipper wrote:The Holocaust was the direct result of a "religious" belief that there are inferior races that imped the evolutionary progression of a superior race. It is entirely laced with evolutionary thought which suggests man pulled himself up from the slime and is becoming a 'god.'


Nah, where did you get this? The Holocaust was the final result (I hope it was final) of centuries of animosity and prejudice against Jews by Christian authorities (mostly Popes).

Read Luther's comments about Jews for the early Protestant views.

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/anti-semitism/Luther_on_Jews.html

LittleNipper wrote:Slavery was the result of pagan influences that began in Egypt and were fully accepted as the norm for the Roman Empire. It was not until men began to really embrace biblical teaching that Christians began to understand that to enslave brothers and sisters in Christ was entirely wrong. And that to enslave non-christians was a violation of Christian love and hampered missionary work and conversions.


I don't think think the Egyptians had slaves (despite what you may have read, Biblical or otherwise). It's true that the Romans did have slaves, but the Jews had them many hundreds of years before the Roman Empire even existed.

(Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)
When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. And if the slave girl's owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment. (Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)

In the New Testament:
1 Timothy 6:1-3 "Let as many servants as are under the yoke count their own masters worthy of all honor, that the name of God and his doctrine be not blasphemed. And they that have believing masters, let them not despise them, because they are brethren; but rather do them service, because they are faithful and beloved, partakers of the benefit. These things teach and exhort. If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness;"

The Southern Baptist Church was created as a response to abolitionists in the North. They spent a good deal of their time finding Bible quotes that justified the enslavement of non-Christians.

I think you skipped over some of the other examples I posted.
This, or any other post that I have made or will make in the future, is strictly my own opinion and consequently of little or no value.

"Faith is believing something you know ain't true" Twain.
_LittleNipper
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Re: Why I don't believe the story of the Great Flood...

Post by _LittleNipper »

Quasimodo wrote:
LittleNipper wrote:The Holocaust was the direct result of a "religious" belief that there are inferior races that imped the evolutionary progression of a superior race. It is entirely laced with evolutionary thought which suggests man pulled himself up from the slime and is becoming a 'god.'


Nah, where did you get this? The Holocaust was the final result (I hope it was final) of centuries of animosity and prejudice against Jews by Christian authorities (mostly Popes).

Read Luther's comments about Jews for the early Protestant views.

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/anti-semitism/Luther_on_Jews.html

LittleNipper wrote:Slavery was the result of pagan influences that began in Egypt and were fully accepted as the norm for the Roman Empire. It was not until men began to really embrace biblical teaching that Christians began to understand that to enslave brothers and sisters in Christ was entirely wrong. And that to enslave non-christians was a violation of Christian love and hampered missionary work and conversions.


I don't think think the Egyptians had slaves (despite what you may have read, Biblical or otherwise). It's true that the Romans did have slaves, but the Jews had them many hundreds of years before the Roman Empire even existed.

(Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)
When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. And if the slave girl's owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment. (Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)

In the New Testament:
1 Timothy 6:1-3 "Let as many servants as are under the yoke count their own masters worthy of all honor, that the name of God and his doctrine be not blasphemed. And they that have believing masters, let them not despise them, because they are brethren; but rather do them service, because they are faithful and beloved, partakers of the benefit. These things teach and exhort. If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness;"

The Southern Baptist Church was created as a response to abolitionists in the North. They spent a good deal of their time finding Bible quotes that justified the enslavement of non-Christians.

I think you skipped over some of the other examples I posted.

You don't think Egyptians had slaves... And what exactly do you base that bit of thinking on? The Southern Baptist Church was wrong. Timothy believes that a Christian needs to set an exemplary example to those in authority (including masters) in order to be a profitable witness --- bring Christ to the unbeliever and helping to uplift, mature and encourage the baby in Christ. As for buying and selling of a daughter, God allowed slavery but that doesn't mean He liked it. And the simple fact is that slave owners often had their way with the slaves (rember Joseph and Potifer's wife). The female slave is protected from being sent away after being ---- used. The Biblical laws insured that slaves are protected and may even get freed if abused. The Romans never did that!
_LittleNipper
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Re: Why I don't believe the story of the Great Flood...

Post by _LittleNipper »

The Erotic Apologist wrote:
LittleNipper wrote:You must have missed the FACT that the people God had the Israelites drive out were perverted and they were destroying the very ecology of the land with their perverted ways.
Right, sounds like a perfectly good excuse for a massacre. Are you positive it's this god that you're supposed to have the personal relationship with?

Oh come on. You can sound more convincing than that ! :razz:
_LittleNipper
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Re: Why I don't believe the story of the Great Flood...

Post by _LittleNipper »

Please see: http://specials.msn.com/msnvideo/video? ... n-us_msnhp

Belief or science? Fact or science fiction?
_DrW
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Re: Why I don't believe the story of the Great Flood...

Post by _DrW »

LittleNipper wrote:Please see: http://specials.msn.com/msnvideo/video? ... n-us_msnhp

Belief or science? Fact or science fiction?


The video is certainly not science. It is a story. And there are much more detailed and believable versions of this story.

Within my lifetime, humankind will certainy create simple lifeforms in the laboratory. Once they do, we will have more information as to how this could have happened naturally.

We know that it did happen, and it is highly likely that it happened numerous times at numerous locations.

Exactly how, where and when, of course, we will never know for sure. What we do know to a high degree of certainty is that it was not done by a magic.
David Hume: "---Mistakes in philosophy are merely ridiculous, those in religion are dangerous."

DrW: "Mistakes in science are learning opportunities and are eventually corrected."
_LittleNipper
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Re: Why I don't believe the story of the Great Flood...

Post by _LittleNipper »

DrW wrote:
LittleNipper wrote:Please see: http://specials.msn.com/msnvideo/video? ... n-us_msnhp

Belief or science? Fact or science fiction?


The video is certainly not science. It is a story. And there are much more detailed and believable versions of this story.

Within my lifetime, humankind will certainy create simple lifeforms in the laboratory. Once they do, we will have more information as to how this could have happened naturally.

We know that it did happen, and it is highly likely that it happened numerous times at numerous locations.

Exactly how, where and when, of course, we will never know for sure. What we do know to a high degree of certainty is that it was not done by a magic.

What you meant to say was Divine Creation. Magic cannot create reality only illusion. Someday you will understand the difference. The video is propaganda (plain and simple) mixing opinion with opinion and presenting most as known fact.
Last edited by Guest on Mon Dec 03, 2012 1:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
_LittleNipper
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Re: Why I don't believe the story of the Great Flood...

Post by _LittleNipper »

ludwigm wrote:... and here is the illustration to my previous comment:
[#img] http://www.hung-art.hu/kep/z/zichy/muve ... h/01_1.jpg[/img]
by Mihály Zichy

A very gifted artist
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